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Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:08 pm
by FuFuHunt3r
The shots a unit fires per member of the unit are openly visible in Armageddon. I also like how the game shows you the accuracy of the units calculated with all modifiers. That's very helpfull to see how much cover and other units in the way acually do to the damage output.
But you can get 3 tactical units for 1 dreadnought
My point was that you cannot. There are 2 resources that determine if you can have a unit or not. One is points and the other one is unit slots. Since every unit cost exactly one slot, 3 tactical units are in that regard 3 times as expensive as one drednought is. You cannot diregard this fact entirely. And that's the reason why noone would use tacticals unless they are running extremly low on points.
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 1:36 pm
by caca
FuFuHunt3r wrote:
My point was that you cannot. There are 2 resources that determine if you can have a unit or not. One is points and the other one is unit slots. Since every unit cost exactly one slot, 3 tactical units are in that regard 3 times as expensive as one drednought is. You cannot diregard this fact entirely. And that's the reason why noone would use tacticals unless they are running extremly low on points.
Personally I became convinced that the two tactical squad + support unit efficiently than two dreadnoughts, both in attack and in defense.
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 5:09 pm
by Shrike
FuFuHunt3r wrote:The shots a unit fires per member of the unit are openly visible in Armageddon.
Not sure we're talking about the same thing. Is the ROF calculated as weapon type times number of shots times total unit strength? This was a very different stat in PzC then (see
viewtopic.php?t=26663 for what I mean).
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:06 pm
by FuFuHunt3r
Yeah we were talking about different things. Such a ROF does not exist in Armageddon to my knowlege. Every stregth of a unit shoots a natural number of shots so the overall shots are always unit stregth times number of shots. What I don't know is, how that works with initiative. The faster unit shots first and kills some of the enemy unit and therefore reduces the number of shots of that unit. However, the faster unit does not shoot all of its shots first for some reason. The initative is influenced by morale when I'm not mistaking.
Then there is accuracy influenced by the units skill, the weapon, the morale, the line of sight, the cover, the distance and other units standing in the way. With that number of shots that hit the target you still need to calculate how many wounds you have depending on weapons strength, armor pen and the defence. With all that, you get the lost unit stregth.
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:39 pm
by Dayta
FuFuHunt3r wrote:Yeah we were talking about different things. Such a ROF does not exist in Armageddon to my knowlege. Every stregth of a unit shoots a natural number of shots so the overall shots are always unit stregth times number of shots. What I don't know is, how that works with initiative. The faster unit shots first and kills some of the enemy unit and therefore reduces the number of shots of that unit. However, the faster unit does not shoot all of its shots first for some reason. The initative is influenced by morale when I'm not mistaking.
Then there is accuracy influenced by the units skill, the weapon, the morale, the line of sight, the cover, the distance and other units standing in the way. With that number of shots that hit the target you still need to calculate how many wounds you have depending on weapons strength, armor pen and the defense. With all that, you get the lost unit strength.
Moral does a few things to initiative:
Good +2
Okay 0
Bad -2
Terrible -5
I don't recall the exact numbers, but the difference that allows your entire (faster) unit to fire everything before retaliation is usually 5, depending on how high or low the enemy initiative is (higher base Initiative they have, greater difference is needed)
Also the number is HP, not unit strength (probably typo on your part but wanted to make sure).
Accuracy is (Unit Skill)*(Weapon Accuracy-distance modifier)*(100-(cover+los penalty)).
Wound/Damage Chance is 50+((Weapon Strength)-(Defense)*(100-AP))
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:41 pm
by MadLuddite
Shrike wrote:Kerensky, this is an old argument carried over from PzC, but are players still expected to go into the editor to know what the rate of fire is on a unit? If this is such an essential stat, it should be visible in the GUI so that we can make better informed buy decisions.
No, the rate of fire is visible from the buy and stat screens. It's called "shots".
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:22 am
by Kerensky
As mentioned, yes Rate of Fire, or shots, is very visible. We definitely recognized it as a hugely important stat, so we put it in very visible locations in 40k Armageddon!
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:17 pm
by Shrike
Alright, thanks for the teaser
en passant 
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:40 pm
by Galdred
Kerensky wrote:I see what you are saying, but if you aren't filling your entire roster, you are missing out on a considerable amount of firepower. Those tactical units have some pretty extraordinary firepower being a 20 strength unit with a 2 rate of fire. The vast majority of the Ork enemy units are generally infantry or light vehicles too, and sending dreadnoughts to clear Gretchin is really inefficient given the 1 attack per turn rule.
Actually, slots are not the only drawbacks to lighter units : good hex(providing cover, or with limited exposition to enemy fire) shortage can be even worse sometimes : Tactical squads would need twice as many hexes to attack as Terminators. Which means that it will be harder to provide them all support, and even worse, to position them relatively safely from enemy retaliation.
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:35 pm
by FuFuHunt3r
Does anyone know what exactly the conditions are to get the additional IG units? Is it holding the VPs or keeping the IG units alive? Or maybe both? If it's the VPs, how come the orks don't care about them at all?
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:56 pm
by em
It has been almost a month since devs admired that the Salamanders campaign has bugs making it way much harder than it intended to be. I am just curious for how much longer have we wait for a patch? With all my respect. Seriously? Does it take the whole month to provide us with playable and enjoyable game we paid for? I simply can't bare to play with ugly unflaffy rosters consisted of hosts of dreadnoughts.
Also, are there any plans to return back the feature taken away a patch ago - when disbanding units would return their full cost. Considering that there is no reserve slots available in the game that was the only way to change your army in the middle of campaign to try a new tactics using different unit types.
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:03 pm
by Kerensky
em wrote:It has been almost a month since devs admired that the Salamanders campaign has bugs making it way much harder than it intended to be. I am just curious for how much longer have we wait for a patch? With all my respect. Seriously? Does it take the whole month to provide us with playable and enjoyable game we paid for? I simply can't bare to play with ugly unflaffy rosters consisted of hosts of dreadnoughts.
Also, are there any plans to return back the feature taken away a patch ago - when disbanding units would return their full cost. Considering that there is no reserve slots available in the game that was the only way to change your army in the middle of campaign to try a new tactics using different unit types.
The wait is over!
Included in this patch are quite the number of fixes and also a Points per Turn boost for all Salamander AND Blood Angel campaign scenarios. Happy Ork hunting!
http://slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=121&t=63965
Re: Vulkans Wrath is brutally hard
Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:29 pm
by Falke_MatrixForum
Yuck, just as we Players have a good whine ready, you patch and give new Content
