Slitherine

So to recap.

If lancers throw no dice but their friends cause their MF opponents to test, do the MF take a minus 1 for losing to lancers?

If firearms throw no dice but their friends cause their opponents to test, do the opponents take a minus 1 for being shot at by firearms?

Exactly, though the MF is spurious.
And the Firearm thing has happened to me more than once, including last weekend.

philqw78 wrote:Exactly, though the MF is spurious.
And the Firearm thing has happened to me more than once, including last weekend.

Fortunately I was on hand to give the correct ruling.

Nothing like your self inflated opinion.
But why get a minus for no dice in some circumstances but not others. Do rulings depend on the wind direction?
It was a bollocks ruling

philqw78 wrote:Nothing like your self inflated opinion.
But why get a minus for no dice in some circumstances but not others. Do rulings depend on the wind direction?
It was a bollocks ruling

Because of the wording. "Lost to lancers in impact" and "fired at by firearms".

Because there were no dice thrown the firearms did not fire, but the BG losing impact still lost and against lancers, even if they did not contribute any dice they still charged and took part in the impact phase.

The firearms must fire, its compulsory. Nobody lost to lancers that didn't roll any dice. At worst they drew

OK, so it seems that Dave is saying:
- even if the lancers throw no dice, if their opponents lose impact they take a -1 for losing to lancers at impact
- however the firearms must throw dice for their opponents to count as "shot at by firearms"

zoltan wrote:OK, so it seems that Dave is saying:
- even if the lancers throw no dice, if their opponents lose impact they take a -1 for losing to lancers at impact
- however the firearms must throw dice for their opponents to count as "shot at by firearms"

Yes, to count as firing you must have one dice. In this case they don't have any firing as the requisite number of bases aren't available.

Dave wrote:Yes, to count as firing you must have one dice.

_____

So, and are cavalry facing down

are handgunners and are Xbow LF facing up. (They've taken some casualties _ )

The Handgunners will get 2 dice against but only half against
The Xbow get 1 and a half against . Total 2 v
Do they count as shot at by firearms now, there isn't one dice for the firearms?

I do think there is inconsistency here. The firearms are shooting but not with enough men to qualify for a die. By the same token we must assume the lancers are in impact, but not with enough men to qualify for a die. Its the same situation. Either both qualify for the -1 or neither.

It's got the same sort of feel to it, but it's not necessarily the same. For example, the noise and smoke of nearby firearms could have been unsettling whether you were the target or not, whereas with lancers it might need to be a bit more up front and personal.

But I think what Mr Ruddock is saying is that the two bits of the rules are written differently. which I suppose is fair enough. If I wanted to know when the minus for losing to lancers applies. I think I'd want them to read that bit of the rules, not say "well the shot at by firearms bit works this way so I'm ruling it the same"

I'm not convinced the rules wording is clearly different between the two.

"Lost to lancers in impact" and "fired at by firearms"

Both would be true even if no dice are rolled. I'm not aware of anything in the rules that says one counts even if no dice are rolled and the other doesn't. Ofcourse I'm waiting to be corrected on that....

Fired at is more true as firing is compulsory.
Lost to lancers, they didn't roll any dice, is less true.

philqw78 wrote:Fired at is more true as firing is compulsory.
Lost to lancers, they didn't roll any dice, is less true.

Impact is also compulsory!

It also states "even partly lost to lancers". The word "partly" is not mentioned in the firearms sentence.

dave_r wrote:Impact is also compulsory!

No its not. It is upto the owning player which bases he fights with in the lost to lancers case. And in your example it is chosen not to fight with the lancers

And what happens in the situation shown above where the firearms contribute half a dice.

philqw78 wrote:

dave_r wrote:Impact is also compulsory!

No its not. It is upto the owning player which bases he fights with in the lost to lancers case. And in your example it is chosen not to fight with the lancers

And what happens in the situation shown above where the firearms contribute half a dice.

There's no such thing as half a dice.

Ok. They contribute 1 base, as do the LF Xbow. Making a a dice, hitting on 4.

Combining shooting bases use the lowest POA, but the CT would get the minus because the BG was shot at by firearms.