Slitherine

nikivdd wrote:That's why i try as much as possible to have the recon protected by a StuG IIIB or better.

Can you create an icon for a Stug using a recon unit as applique armour?
Slightly more seriously, many things do better with a Stug, and if I had a choice of recon or Stug the Stug would win.

On Tarrak's suggestions that recon moves forwards four moves and then pulls back - many recon units don't have enough move to do this, especially when you allow for the stop taking up a move slot. However, if your Panzer 2F or Luchs had a move of six or more rather than 5, they could be used for this kind of scouting. Several Soviet tanks have move 6 as do Panthers (and Oleh Dir) so it seems quite reasonable that at least some recon could match or exceed this.

Most of the German recon cars have a movement of 8. Which is enough to move 4 hexes forward, pay one movement point for stopping and then move 3 hexes back. Considering you are advancing with your fighting troops as well this is in most cases enough to bring the recon safe behind your lines. I agree tho that considering the faster tanks have a movement of 6 already rising their movement could give the scouts a bit of needed edge.

nikivdd wrote:I concur with Slygore. From DLC 40 on, a recon + a StuG IIIB make a good team
A recon is a favorite target for the AI but personally, my battlegroup without a recon wouldn't feel the same. That's why i try as much as possible to have the recon protected by a StuG IIIB or better.

It's a favorite target for the AI because of it's relative low ground defense and attack values. Therefor it's looks for the AI it will do good damage and take little in return. You can replace the recon unit with any other unit for this purpose to bait the AI like infantry. Later on this tactic became useless against enemy armor as GD values from most later tanks (~15GD for medium tanks and over 20 for heavy tanks) makes them resistant if not outright immune to 15cm caliber arty (9HA). As result arty will not suppress the attacking armor enough to avoid having your recon unit get damaged badly. Even the best German recon don't have more than 12 GD versus =>16 HA of later tanks.
Actually even infantry will do better because most tanks soft attack are not higher than 8SA (I think the largest guns have 9 SA) versus '43 Grenadier 8 GD. If you can overcome the initiative difference (by avoiding clear hexes) you would do better with them.

The observation, that infantry is a much better bait than recon, is absolutely correct.

Highly experienced infantry is sturdy even on open ground. And extremely cheap to "repair".

Regards,
Thorsten

Tarrak wrote:Most of the German recon cars have a movement of 8. Which is enough to move 4 hexes forward, pay one movement point for stopping and then move 3 hexes back. Considering you are advancing with your fighting troops as well this is in most cases enough to bring the recon safe behind your lines. I agree tho that considering the faster tanks have a movement of 6 already rising their movement could give the scouts a bit of needed edge.

Yes, but why should you need said reconnaissance? If you move battlegroups in a staged process this group is never in danger of anything, no matter how you organize it exactly, as long as the strong units occupy the outer perimeter. And for the siege periods against city hexes plus surrounding a spotting range of 3 or 4 by leading tanks, Kradschuetzen, whatever is sufficient.

Spotting range of 3 plus a movement max 3 hexes in front of the battlegroup (as you have to move it out of cover first) is exactly not enough to spot the preset counterattacks in time to do anything useful. I agree that a movement of 10 and/or a spotting range of 4 and/or different spotting rules (detection probability for enemy units like in Peoples General) would make me change my mind.

Regards,
Thorsten

Recon is too weak to kill tanks... so stuff it! Seriously, I don't care about those pieces of junk.

- BNC

I have a tank with two spotting heroes. It can spot 6 hexes. I use it as a spotting reserve.

nikivdd wrote:I concur with Slygore. From DLC 40 on, a recon + a StuG IIIB make a good team
A recon is a favorite target for the AI but personally, my battlegroup without a recon wouldn't feel the same. That's why i try as much as possible to have the recon protected by a StuG IIIB or better.

I'm almost at the end of GC 40 (2nd from last scenario i think) and don't yet have access to StuG IIIB. Are you using a mod or am i missing something?

I think he mistake it with the sturmpanzer.

I remember him stating in a different thread that he is playing with a mod that gives him the artillery Stug earlier.

I made a few minor tweaks of my copy of the vanilla e-file, including the StuG III Ausf. B (Sd.Kfz 142; June 1940-May 1941, 300 produced by Alkett). I think of also changing the StuG IIIA (Sd.Kfz. 142; January 1940-May 1940, 30+6 produced by Daimler-Benz) as it has a nopurchase flag in the e-file. And no, i am not mixing it up with a Sturmpanzer for i am not a fan of this unit.