Slitherine

miffedofreading wrote:Forgot to ask, are my carthaginian MF Scutarii suppossed to be 3 or 4 to a base. i.e. are they drilled??
Andy

It actually doesn't matter as MF can be either 3 or 4 to a base irrespective of training. The 3 to a base for irregs (undrilled) and 4 to a base for regs (drilled) is a DBM ruling, not a FOG ruling. FOG permits either basing. The 3/4 to a base is for compatability to DBM and avoid DBMers having to rebase figures.

You're required to define your BG definition at deployment and whenever the opponent asks, so there shouldn't be an issue about MF 3 to a base being drilled.

neilhammond wrote:

miffedofreading wrote:Forgot to ask, are my carthaginian MF Scutarii suppossed to be 3 or 4 to a base. i.e. are they drilled??
Andy

It actually doesn't matter as MF can be either 3 or 4 to a base irrespective of training. The 3 to a base for irregs (undrilled) and 4 to a base for regs (drilled) is a DBM ruling, not a FOG ruling. FOG permits either basing. The 3/4 to a base is for compatability to DBM and avoid DBMers having to rebase figures.

You're required to define your BG definition at deployment and whenever the opponent asks, so there shouldn't be an issue about MF 3 to a base being drilled.

Thanks Guys, I think I will base them 4 to a base as drilled, but reserve the right to claim they are undrilled for a game when it suits me, which I believe is the official policy

Guy's,

I have asked a few questions about the difference between HF and MF and drilled and undrilled MF.

I will guess that Roman legionaries and Macedonian pikemen are both drilled HF. Yet I would expect pike phalanxes to be more affected by bad terrain etc than a flexible unit such as a legionary or an HF gaul.

Are there bits in the rules to cover this?

Andy

miffedofreading wrote:Guy's,

I have asked a few questions about the difference between HF and MF and drilled and undrilled MF.

I will guess that Roman legionaries and Macedonian pikemen are both drilled HF. Yet I would expect pike phalanxes to be more affected by bad terrain etc than a flexible unit such as a legionary or an HF gaul.

Are there bits in the rules to cover this?

Andy

Yes. Both are disordered but the Pike lose a POA for a 4th rank if not in the open giving the legionaries an edge in non-open terrain. Also, Pike stop a lot of other troops POAs like swordsmen skill when they are steady and this is also lost in non-open terrain.

Cheers,

Steve

as for basing your gauls, drilled or undrilled it might be 3 or 4 figures, but medium inf should be 3 and heavy 4 . You can always choose latter if they are drilled or undrilled . the only drilled gauls I saw are in the elite experienced Hannibal's army .

bahdahbum wrote:as for basing your gauls, drilled or undrilled it might be 3 or 4 figures, but medium inf should be 3 and heavy 4 . You can always choose latter if they are drilled or undrilled . the only drilled gauls I saw are in the elite experienced Hannibal's army .

I believe my current plan is to base my gauls in hannibals army as heavy infantry, 4 to a base, no idea if these are drilled, guess not

It is the spanish scutarii I have to make a decision on, they will be drilled MF, which seems to probably mean 4 to a MF base though 3 to an MF base is ok. I will probably go for the 4 base.

In Hannibal's army, if you take spanish troops , the gauls are also undrilled . Rhe only drilled gauls are in Italt ( veterans ) and in Italy Hannibal has no spanish units .

bahdahbum wrote:In Hannibal's army, if you take spanish troops , the gauls are also undrilled . Rhe only drilled gauls are in Italt ( veterans ) and in Italy Hannibal has no spanish units .

This is incorrect. Hannibal can have drilled Spanish and Gauls in Italy from 216.

What he cannot have are: Artillery, more than 2 elephants, Celtiberian scutarii, undrilled Spanish scutarii, Syracusan, Numidian or Spanish allies.

rbodleyscott wrote:

bahdahbum wrote:In Hannibal's army, if you take spanish troops , the gauls are also undrilled . Rhe only drilled gauls are in Italt ( veterans ) and in Italy Hannibal has no spanish units .

This is incorrect. Hannibal can have drilled Spanish and Gauls in Italy from 216.

What he cannot have are: Artillery, more than 2 elephants, Celtiberian scutarii, undrilled Spanish scutarii, Syracusan, Numidian or Spanish allies.

Thanks Richard, thought my great plan of HF gauls and MF scutarii was wrecked then

Drilled Scutarii in italy sounds perfectly reasonable to me. I seem to vaguely remember that in italy all Hannibals spanish and african troops were his "veterans". Gauls and italians were used as canon fodder.

Actually I don't remember anyone mentioning italian allies in Italy for the Carthaginians? Drilled MF? undrilled HF??

Andy

miffedofreading wrote:
Thanks Richard, thought my great plan of HF gauls and MF scutarii was wrecked then

Why?

IIRC the Gauls can be HF and the Spanish MF regardless of whether they are drilled or undrilled.

I may, however, be wrong - it does happen occasionally

nikgaukroger wrote:

miffedofreading wrote:
Thanks Richard, thought my great plan of HF gauls and MF scutarii was wrecked then

Why?

IIRC the Gauls can be HF and the Spanish MF regardless of whether they are drilled or undrilled.

I may, however, be wrong - it does happen occasionally

Nik would appear to be right

Gallic foot in a Carthaginian army are all MF or all HF and in Italy must be drilled

Mercenary Scutarii are always MF but in Italy cannot be undrilled

Celtiberian scutarii are always undrilled HF and cannot be used in Italy

Hammy

hammy wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:

miffedofreading wrote:
Thanks Richard, thought my great plan of HF gauls and MF scutarii was wrecked then

Why?

IIRC the Gauls can be HF and the Spanish MF regardless of whether they are drilled or undrilled.

I may, however, be wrong - it does happen occasionally

Nik would appear to be right

Gallic foot in a Carthaginian army are all MF or all HF and in Italy must be drilled

Mercenary Scutarii are always MF but in Italy cannot be undrilled

Celtiberian scutarii are always undrilled HF and cannot be used in Italy

Hammy

My, you guys are tying yourselves in knots.

He only thought his plans were scuppered when Badahbum told him (incorrectly) that Hannibal cannot have (drilled) Gauls and Spanish together.

Note also that the restrictions are only from 216. From 218 to 217 in Italy he can have irregular Gauls (HF or MF) and irregular or regular Spanish scutarii (MF).

The Italian allies vary - Bruttians etc are MF, Campanians by this period probably had Roman type organisation.

See, that's why Richard earns the big bucks

He figured out my comment straight away!

Only joking, thanks everyone for your comments, Richard was right though, I was just a little startled by Badahbum's reply. Good job richard was on the ball.

What a very talented chap he must be

Can I have a free army list book for creeping?

Andy

OUPS sorry I answered from memory without my lists