Slitherine

Tiavals wrote:

the_iron_duke wrote:Just want to check about missile combat. The table in the rules says:

- Short Name /Shooter (Current Player) / Points Of Advantage / Target
- moved(MF) / Medium foot that moved this player turn / -1 / Any

This rule is not enacted in the actual game and there is no penalty for MF moving and firing?

Also, below that there is the following:

- support / Medium foot being charged / -1 / Any

What does this mean? I don't understand it.

Moving affects nothing shooting wise. You can move and shoot with any ranged unit, if the enemy is in your line of fire, even with Light Artillery, and there are no penalties. Unless of course you move into bad terrain or such.

Probably nothing. Or it may be that when MF bows are charged, they get to shoot before the enemy strikes(which is why you have different odds attacking MF foot from the front 2 hexes, than the sides), perhaps there is a minus involved in this shooting? Though I don't think so, as far as I understand it, they get to roll 6 dice instead of 4(that is, 2 more than normal) when they're attacked, and that there's no actual ranged attack roll involved, only a boosted impact roll.(which is why Scots-islands impact foot archer support, and dailami archer support, are so powerful).

Originally units that shot and moved received a -1 to their dice roll. Many patches ago this rule was deleted. As for the other matter a unit that receives support fire rolls the first four dice without modifications but the final two roll at -1. As an example a light spear MF charges a poor bow. The bow is at -1POA so it will need 5 or 6's to hit with a 6 being a reroll due to being poor for the first four dice then it will roll two further dice at -1 thus needing 6's to hit (which will mean rerolling due to poor).

pantherboy wrote:

Tiavals wrote:

the_iron_duke wrote:Just want to check about missile combat. The table in the rules says:

- Short Name /Shooter (Current Player) / Points Of Advantage / Target
- moved(MF) / Medium foot that moved this player turn / -1 / Any

This rule is not enacted in the actual game and there is no penalty for MF moving and firing?

Also, below that there is the following:

- support / Medium foot being charged / -1 / Any

What does this mean? I don't understand it.

Moving affects nothing shooting wise. You can move and shoot with any ranged unit, if the enemy is in your line of fire, even with Light Artillery, and there are no penalties. Unless of course you move into bad terrain or such.

Probably nothing. Or it may be that when MF bows are charged, they get to shoot before the enemy strikes(which is why you have different odds attacking MF foot from the front 2 hexes, than the sides), perhaps there is a minus involved in this shooting? Though I don't think so, as far as I understand it, they get to roll 6 dice instead of 4(that is, 2 more than normal) when they're attacked, and that there's no actual ranged attack roll involved, only a boosted impact roll.(which is why Scots-islands impact foot archer support, and dailami archer support, are so powerful).

Originally units that shot and moved received a -1 to their dice roll. Many patches ago this rule was deleted. As for the other matter a unit that receives support fire rolls the first four dice without modifications but the final two roll at -1. As an example a light spear MF charges a poor bow. The bow is at -1POA so it will need 5 or 6's to hit with a 6 being a reroll due to being poor for the first four dice then it will roll two further dice at -1 thus needing 6's to hit (which will mean rerolling due to poor).

The -1 PoA for MF for shooting was introduced in an early update to FoG PC when all missile BGs received a free change of face to fire rather than only being able to fire through their front two hexsides. The -1 was removed when this free facing change was dropped for all BGs except LF. LF do still receive a -1 PoA if their target is in their front two hexsides before they fire.

Chris

Thanks for the clarifications.

Are there any rules to know about cavalry breaking off from combat (apart from using friendly troops at their rear to prevent them from doing so)? Can cavalry break off from all types of combat (lancers v lancers or knights, for example)? Also, can they break off if an enemy unit is adjacent to, but not in, a rear hex? When they retreat after breaking off are they able to escape through one hex gaps between non-LF/LH enemy units?

the_iron_duke wrote:Are there any rules to know about cavalry breaking off from combat (apart from using friendly troops at their rear to prevent them from doing so)? Can cavalry break off from all types of combat (lancers v lancers or knights, for example)? Also, can they break off if an enemy unit is adjacent to, but not in, a rear hex? When they retreat after breaking off are they able to escape through one hex gaps between non-LF/LH enemy units?

As far as I recall, as long as they are in contact with at least one STEADY enemy infantry BG, they will break off. The rules states 50% of more enemies infantry BG that are steady and in contact causes the break off, but Im not sure if ive seen that in practice. It appears they can always beak off if at leat one of their rear hexes is void of any BG of either side. The Gaps they can slide thru appear to have changed quite a bit over the various patches to the game but basically they will slide thru any gaps.
The bigger issue is WHEN they break off.... Usually if you charge in on your turn they will break off at the end of your opponents turn but odd things happen during a turn that can break this cycle....
For example cavalry that anarchies into infantry during you turn often break off at the end of your turn...
Its really hard to test this too....

Thanks for the information. I just did a small test scenario and the cavalry broke away from the infantry but there were no break-aways with lancers versus other lancers, non-lancer cavalry or knights. I thought I saw in a recent game a cavalry (elite Macedonian Agema, if I recall) break away from an all-cavalry fight and was surprised by this. Is this possible?

the_iron_duke wrote:Thanks for the information. I just did a small test scenario and the cavalry broke away from the infantry but there were no break-aways with lancers versus other lancers, non-lancer cavalry or knights. I thought I saw in a recent game a cavalry (elite Macedonian Agema, if I recall) break away from an all-cavalry fight and was surprised by this. Is this possible?

No, cavalry only "break off" from infantry. Not saying you didn't see it though, possible fluke bug? More likely though is an infantry unit somehow got involved that turn OR after you or opponent hit end turn ( a lot still happens after hitting end turn), the infantry possibly following a routed unit and came into contact with the cavalry which then immediately broke off..... I don't believ hex war had an answer for all the things that could happen sequence wise, just look how sacking a camp point are allocated. Still one of the greater mysteries!

Okay. I wasn't as clear on the break-away rules when I saw it so I didn't give it the level of scrutiny that I would now.

Do offensive/defensive spearmen lose a PoA for melee in non-open terrain? The rules say:

- pike/spear // pike battlegroup above 75% of its initial strength // +1 Unless fragmented and both sides are in open terrain

I tested it and they didn't seem to but it does say "pike/spear", and so I'm a bit uncertain.

Also, what are the occasions where a light spear and sword unit will perform better than a heavy weapon or offensive spear unit (and I'm thinking of an army like the Thracians where one can choose lots of all three)? These are the advantages as I understand from the tables: LS+S are a bit cheaper than HW and OS; unlike OS they won't anarchy-charge; they are better on impact than HW against mounted; they are better than HW at fighting swordsmen and skirmishers. Is that everything? Do they have any advantages over Offensive Spear apart from not anarchy-charging?

Spearmen (offensive and defensive) lose their POA if fragmented or severely disordered. Swords/light spears do not. The pike POA for over 75% strength only applies in clear terrain. The spear/pike POAs for >50% strength apply when not fragmented and not severely disordered, e.g. HF pikes/spears have no weapon POA in forest or on steep hills.

While offensive spearman may anarchy charge, they will also charge when disrupted without having to pass a CMT.

Chris

Thanks for the information and clarifications.

Is the terrain table in the rules wrong about light artillery? It shows that they get disordered by various terrains but never very disordered. In my current game I have some light guns on a steep hill and they are showing as very disordered.

In FoG TT artillery isnot allowed in difficult terrain at all so that should probably be true in FoG PC as well.

Chris