Slitherine

ShrubMiK wrote:Oh! Maybe it is one of those regional differences, which didn't become apparent because hardly anybody was using HF in tournaments

perhaps so, but it is only tenable if you ignore the definition of "within" in the glossary.

philqw78 wrote:Well I've never seen people second move to 6, then not (be able to) charge after their opponents 3 MU move, or their opponents complain about that charge.

Crikey. Really? This is really important in the interaction between bow or Longbow MF and HF. Also, under v1 at least, it meant that HF would take a bound longer to shoo away shooty cavalry. The rules are very clear on it too.

The HF make a second move ending up just over six MU away so the bows can't shoot. Next move, HF move to just over 3MU, bows shoot at effective range (twice). HF then move to very very close but not touching, bows shoot twice.

I suppose playing Persians a lot I see it more but I find it quite a common thing.

rbodleyscott wrote:The ruling was wrong.

Tell Mr Hall

I'm sorry, this discussion has lost me completely.

I have gone through the index, expanded index and glossary and cannot find a specific definition of a "gnats todger".

And do "gnats todgers" differ in Europe, North America or the Southern hemisphere?

In the UK they are huge as per all in the UK, usually greater than 6MUs. I understand in other places a Gnat's Todger (note the possesive apostraphe) is of lesser size.

philqw78 wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:The ruling was wrong.

Tell Mr Hall

Wrong is wrong. It isn't a matter of interpretation, the rules are specific.

Why did you ask for a ruling if you believed that your cavalry should be caught?

Or are you telling us that you used to play the rule correctly until your correct understanding of the RAW was subverted by this ruling?

I play a number of competitions and am happy to see the rules the way my opponent sees them, unless it doesn't suit my view of the rules as far as my plan goes. An umpire is then called and whichever way it is ruled it is played that way all game. An interpretation was not needed up until that point. So I asked for a ruling because at that point I believed they should not be caught.

Vespasian28 wrote:I'm sorry, this discussion has lost me completely.

I have gone through the index, expanded index and glossary and cannot find a specific definition of a "gnats todger".

And do "gnats todgers" differ in Europe, North America or the Southern hemisphere?

It is a similarly difficult concept to grasp as the concept of infinity.

In particularly the concept that one infinite object can be larger than another.

In this case a gnat's todger is (potentially) infinitely small but more than zero.

philqw78 wrote:I play a number of competitions and am happy to see the rules the way my opponent sees them, unless it doesn't suit my view of the rules as far as my plan goes. An umpire is then called and whichever way it is ruled it is played that way all game. An interpretation was not needed up until that point. So I asked for a ruling because at that point I believed they should not be caught.

And you were right.

The ruling you were given was wrong, and does not correspond to the RAW, the eminence of the umpire notwithstanding.

Did it also lead you to the belief that foot archers could second move to 6" and then shoot? There was nothing in version 1 to prevent this other than the fact that you can't move to 6".

We only added a restriction on shooting after 2nd moves in v2 because troops can now second move to just outside 4" of skirmishers, so foot archers would be able to shoot if there was no specific restriction. That restriction was unnecessary in V1, when the 2nd move could only go to just outside 6" of all troop type.

(We did not restrict it in v1 for troops discovering ambushes)

gozerius wrote:Broken troops within 6 MUs of enemy cannot be rallied.

Yes, I knew that. I don't even know why I said what I said. I guess on the table I would have noted it, away from the table things look totally different in my mind.

Well, we all know that, because in my mind I'm a very ugly fellow, but in reality we all know I'm extremely handsome... modest too.

...and a fellow in relation to whom the words "gnat" and "todger" would never be seen in close proximity

rbodleyscott wrote:

philqw78 wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:The ruling was wrong.

Tell Mr Hall

Wrong is wrong. It isn't a matter of interpretation, the rules are specific.

Why did you ask for a ruling if you believed that your cavalry should be caught?

Or are you telling us that you used to play the rule correctly until your correct understanding of the RAW was subverted by this ruling?

Also, just because someone is an author doesn't make them an authority. They forget, and get mixed up with the rules that were considered, but not put in. And sometimes they forget to actually read the book before ruling. I know this because Terry and Simon play at the same club as me and really don't play much FOGAM recently due to other commitments and interests.

This must be a difficult rule to umpire, as the umpire doesn't see two moves back when the troops were todgering and you defined it as 6 inches and a bit but sees it when they've moved again, the table's been jogged, etc.

i agree with the "todger" interp, but for the sake of ease of play, is there better way to make these moves, as how long can "you" remember to keep track of a todger, for ex, say in 2/3 turns time you measure to me and go cool 3", and i go, but i had to stop a todger short remember so we 3" and a todger so you cant charge .....

This starts to add in complication to movement, do we start putting 2nd moved markers with units to mark them stopping a todger short so to speak (btw im not being serious, but in a comp setting someone could start doing this) and introduce memory into turns.

Now a possible solution, instead of 2nd moves stopping a todger short of 6", what if you made them stop 4 base widths away, the difference is about 7mm, no todgers to remember, and still takes same amount of moves to make contact so to speak. Also most people have a handy stick marked in base widths on the table for measuring wheels so nothing new added to the tool box.


"shrug"

cheers