Slitherine

El_Condoro wrote:SE Tigers have a ZOC like most other units and certainly the 3 British ones do, too. There is no 'no zoc' hero that I know of (movement, attack, spotting and defense are the options). But the result certainly looks like it has no ZOC.

I didn't know that there wasn't any no zoc heroes in AK. I haven't had a chance to play it at all yet.

I saw that there was a no zoc trait when I was re-doing Elite Units for 1.10,so I thought maybe there was an outside chance that somehow that Tiger got a zoc hero.

You're right,something is screwed up and it's smelling very fishy in Copenhagen right now

In addition to the one's listed above, there is also a "range" hero. Just received one on a Hummel!

El_Condoro wrote:There is no 'no zoc' hero that I know of (movement, attack, spotting and defense are the options). But the result certainly looks like it has no ZOC.

Of course thereis no nozoc hero . The hero bonuses can be attack,defense,movement,initiative,range or spotting.
Units can either have the NOZOC trait OR the ZOC is disabled for groundunits in the gamerules.pzdat...have you ckecked both ?
I could not think of another possibility..or its a glitch which has been saved into a savegame and converted this way into a permanent
cheat of a unit which is not affected by ZOC (if its only this particular unit)

Thanks, I know all that - I was being tactful in my response.

Each case has been about the units that should exercise their ZOC being hidden at the start of the move. The ZOC is exercised correctly when they are visible at the start of the move. It is like the movement calculation is done based on what the unit can see at the start and ignores the ZOC of anything it doesn't see at the start.

To be clear for Rudankort: it is an MP game (so no cheats, of course); it has Undo turned OFF; it uses the vanilla e-file.

As far as i know there are no heroes of any sort in MP, "nozoc" or other so my firefly, troop and gun should have exercised zoc when the tiger drove past. I'm pretty keen on hearing some answers as too why a Tiger tank was allowed to drive through my army and occupy a town inside my territory without so much as an eyebrow being raised by my forces. That town remained in Axis hands at the end of the battle and could have really ruined my game.
I think anyone would agree having Tigers cutting into the heart of your army with recon style movement is going to render any defense quite useless and could have catastrophic consequences to your game plans, so how did this happen ?

I have the answer

Super-Duper Tiger Stealth Tank

That's right Bob! Real Ghost Recon with tank!

airbornemongo101 wrote:I have the answer

Super-Duper Tiger Stealth Tank

Time for the 'Cloak of Invisibility' Harry !

I tried some tests on a hotseat version of Hylan oasis but have been unable to replicate the anomalies so it could be an MP bug. I think it may have something to do with hidden units not exerting zoc in some situations as El_condoro pointed out. This MP battle also had undo off which will CTD if you run into an unexpected unit (this occured twice during the game). It seems a few bugs hitched a ride with the last patch.

*Solved*

Its related to the undo feature and it will occur in hotseat as well and i would guess against the AI also. I just tried Poland in hotseat with undo off and my Panzer drove right past a polish troop hidden in the forest. The game also crashes in hotseat mode when ambushed with undo off. Nothing to do with nozoc traits. I would recommend against playing with undo off

soldier wrote:*Solved*

Its related to the undo feature and it will occur in hotseat as well and i would guess against the AI also. I just tried Poland in hotseat with undo off and my Panzer drove right past a polish troop hidden in the forest. The game also crashes in hotseat mode when ambushed with undo off. Nothing to do with nozoc traits. I would recommend against playing with undo off

I see what you mean.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgatoA0W ... e=youtu.be

We're aware of the crash (has to do with recon and ambush) but thanks for testing and helping us pin this issue down too!

Damn...

Another one of my wacky theories beat out by logic,science, and testing ......this is getting old

airbornemongo101 wrote:Damn...

Another one of my wacky theories beat out by logic,science, and testing ......this is getting old

..better wacky theories than none

Thanks to all people participating. Issue confirmed and fixed.

Thanks, Alex!