Lots of speculation here.
This is the deal on the 4000 prestige reward... Please stop reading now if you don't want SPOILERS!
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You don't have to take the Bir Gubi airstrip to win the scenario, but if you don't you won't get the bonus reward. Even if you do take it, you still have to more or less fulfil the Decisive Victory conditions before you get it.
If you have questions regarding the exact specifics, read on. Otherwise DETAILED SPOILERS coming up!
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To repeat the three conditions for a Decisive win: A) no Primary Objectives held by allies B) no Secondary Objectives held by allies and C) leaving no more than 13 allied CORE units on the map.
Let's make that C) clear: it's CORE units. For instance, all minefields are auxilary and can be left alone and still win.
Normally there are no Secondary Objectives on this map - only by capturing the Bir Gubi airfield will one appear (the airfield hex). The decisive win triggers regardless (since no Secondary Objectives will be in allied hands if none exist).
The prestige bonus pay-out, on the other hand, is triggered by a slightly but crucially different set of conditions: A) no Primary Objectives held by allies B) one Secondary Objective held by axis and C) leaving no more than 13 allied CORE units on the map.
As you can see, this new condition B can only be fulfilled by having a secondary hex in the first place, and to make this happen, you have no alternative - on this map anyway - to taking the Bir Gubi airfield.
Of course, by taking the airfield (and creating the opportunity for the bonus prestige) you also unleash the "offmap" units - the Allied counterattack force that will try to retake it. (These allied units do not appear if the airfield never falls in Axis hands)
To dispel speculation:
* the prestige reward is not directly tied to any specific unit on the map. For instance, it has nothing to do with the sneaky SAS paradrops or the Hangar. And you can leave every unit in the Allied counterattack alive and still get the prestige reward - you don't have to kill them specifically, and since they're auxiliaries, they don't count toward victory conditions. (Of course, unless you kill them off the map, they will tie down your units)
* it is not directly tied to any win conditions. That said, since the triggering conditions are pretty much identical to Decisive victory, getting the bonus also mean you're about to win a Decisive win, and the 4000 prestige will only ever be paid out at the very end of the scenario. (I guess theoretically you could still lose the scenario despite getting the reward, if some rogue Allied unit manages to recapture a Victory hex and hold onto it until time runs out... but by that time, most Allied units should be fleeing or be hopelessly demoralized)
* Normally I'd say a Marginal Victory won't get the reward. And if you get the reward, you will get more than a Marginal... (But again, I guess it IS theoretically possible to get the reward AND a marginal win: if the Allies retake a victory hex AND buy new units that you do nothing about, then... I did tell you the bonus trigger wasn't directly tied to the Victory Conditions)
balone wrote:Nobody mentioned the 4000 prestige reward for holding the
South east airfield. That was a nice surprise and relief as my
Forces needed lots of reinforcements. I also noticed some more
of those hangers east of Tobruk. Any free units for taking those
Out?
The reward is for winning the scenario "in a decisive manner"
AND having taken the airstrip AND holding onto it.
Hangers doesn't have anything to do with the prestige bonus.
Kamerer wrote:Well, you can't give everything away on the forum now, can you?
Of course you can. Where else would we discuss scenario specifics?
stecal wrote:I held that airfield. never got 4k points though. I don't see how you could not hold the airfield once it becomes a victory hex - otherwise you just loose the scenario as even a minor victory requires every VP.
You must hold the airfield, yes. Both to win at all and to get the prestige bonus.
However, unless you kill off all but 13 allied core units you will only get a Marginal Victory and no prestige bonus.
stecal wrote:now I think I captured the airfield before the announcement that turned it into a VP. Is this a bug that I didnt get the reward?
No that is exactly what should (and does) happen.
If you do not capture the airfield, the next-turn announcement will not happen, the airfield isn't turned into a Secondary Objective, and you will never have even a chance at getting the bonus prestige. You can still win both Marginal and Decisive victories though.
kverdon wrote:My Inf units are being attacked by 2lber and 6lber and taking 2-3 units losses. How is this possible given the fact that, to my knowledge, neither of these AT Guns HAD ANY HE AMMUNITION?????
This is a game, a non-perfect simulation and not actual reality.
balone wrote:Maybe level of difficulty
Has something to do with it?
No.
Kamerer wrote:And there's nothing "buggy" about them - they have their triggers and conditions and they work consistently.
On the other hand, if enough of your customers become frustrated there IS a problem.
Not all "bugs" need a technical origin. Lots of software that is "bug free" and "working as intended" still count as failures.
kverdon wrote:What I refer to as "buggy" are the triggers for the bonus conditions, sometimes they don't fire. As stated, I've captured the AF in Gazala but the "bonus" has not triggered. It also can be more than "Bonus" conditions as in one scenario I Could not complete a Decisive Victory because the Scenario decisive victory conditions were tied to objectives that you could not complete unless you unlocked them. I completed the decisive victory conditions as listed but still got a marginal.
You're probably referring to the "Second Offensive" scenario, but let's keep that discussion elsewhere.
Regarding "the triggers for the bonus conditions" you and Kamerer mean different things.
From a technical implementation and scenario editing standpoint, there are two triggers:
1) the trigger that starts of the bonus "quest" shall we say. In this case, by conquering the Bir Gebi airstrip, you trigger several things:
1a) the message about the counterattack
1b) the units comprising said counterattack
1c) and most crucial, the airstrip becomes the scenario's only secondary objective
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2) the trigger that finishes and completes this "quest" - if you (more or less) win a Decisive and there is a Secondary hex (that you hold) the 4000 prestige is paid out immediately (and you can probably just hit end of turn and win the Decisive victory)
What Kamerer is saying is that trigger 1 will probably have triggered just fine.
It's only trigger 2 that didn't go off. And I can easily see your frustration, since you are never told when and how you cash in this reward, and if you go on to win a Marginal Victory, you will feel as if the "quest" didn't work properly...
When in fact it works perfectly. It is quite by intention: the scenario designer WANTS you to scratch your head and wonder what you need to do to gain a reward, and what that reward is. The problem though is that he or she probably overestimates your curiosity visavi your frustration!
Tarrak wrote:I don't think the bonus triggers itself are buggy but this bug is caused by the "autosave bug" that is already known and hopefully will be fixed soon.
FYI: While I am sure the autosave bug can mess up your game, neither this nor the other scenario is directly affected by any such bug.
In this case, there isn't a "bug" per se. Quite possibly there is frustration and misunderstanding due to an almost complete lack of information, but no bug in the technical sense.
In the case of "Second Offensive", yes I'd call it a bug that you absolutely must retreat in order to gain a chance of getting a Decisive Win, but again this is a consequence of not-enough-information and probably is not directly related to autosaves.
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