Slitherine

You just do not know. That is the problem. If I knew a guy is making restarts against me I wouldn´t play him anymore...Im saying something must be done to prevent re-starts or a way to know that someone is making re-starts; so If you want you can abandon the game..

Fedem wrote:You just do not know. That is the problem. If I knew a guy is making restarts against me I wouldn´t play him anymore...Im saying something must be done to prevent re-starts or a way to know that someone is making re-starts; so If you want you can abandon the game..

Gotchya, I should have said why do you think this is happening...Some kinda of benign alert would be suficient I would think , most playby email games give a warning of same, with the sophistication of the server I would think it would be petty easy to do for this game.

I can not be sure. But as it is too easy to do it. It can happen and I think it´s better to avoid temptations......we are human after all . Do not like the idea that we play fairly and it is the possibility to play a turn again and again trying different combination of moves.....

Maybe drop EricS a pm rather than Keith about this. I have pmd Eric about 1) Is it a bug that makes some troops who are on always evade, stand when hit by pursuers. 2) Blocking break offs, and should the cav being blocked off drop a cohesion level 3) Why is it that even though foot remain steady after 2 turns, some mounted still remain in contact.

Unfortuantely he is away for a week. But Fedem if you think players are doing this then it has to be stopped or monitored in some way. As TGM has mentioned it is done in other game.

I dabble in Battle Acadamy sometimes. My last turn started with this message:
"We noticed you have downloaded some turns multiple times. If you are having any technical issues please report them to at http://www.slitherine.com/forum.
We'll do our best to resolve any issues and get you up and running ASAP".

I'm feeling uneasy by this as I take it as some sort of underhanded warning.
I have not, intentional or unintentional, downloaded multiple times.
Anyhow, maybe it show that Slitherine is trying to add something like what TGM mentioned. Just not working as it should yet.

Some sort of monitoring would be nice. Something like hidde says happens in Battle Academy. But it should give the notice to your opponent too.
Eric I can not know if it is being done but the chance of doing it is high as it is really easy. I think a way to prevent it would give more "transparency" to the game.

I´m not refering to anyone in particular. I really like this game but when by accident I found this problem it´s like the fall of the idole . I just want a fix for a better enjoyement of the game (for all players).

I will pm EricS and let you guys know if he comes up with something.

Cheers!

LOL, it usually works by telling you your opponent has loaded the game or the file multiple times, not that you youself are under scrutiny by H.A.L.

Something like that should do it TGM. At least for a start

IIRC there is another 'feature' using multiple partial moves that can be exploited with the movement of drilled MF/Cavalry (might just be Cavalry). This was described in one of the pro hints and tips about a year ago. There is a chance this has been fixed now and I'm writing this from memory, so I may get it wrong, but I'm sure people who know about it can comment if it is still available and described correctly.

This is where you want to move forward and to the side and ensure you are facing in a particular way at the end of the move.

As an example lets assume you had drilled cavalry and wanted to move 1 forward (North) and 2 hexes left (West). If you move in 1 go then you end up facing NW. However, if you move 1 hex forward (North), change facing to SW, then move 2 hexes forward (West) you end up in the same place but now facing SW.

Personally, I think the game would be better if all moves had to be made in 1 go, so as soon as you released the unit that unit's moves are over. This stops the rear charge bug, the FoW visibility and the change of facing all in one go.

M

I think you should play the TT game or try and play it. Based on your comments here and in our past discussions. You will really enjoy it.

I am not sure about what other ANcient pc games are available but there may be more similarities to this game compared to FOG-digital and FOG-TT. They are both very different.

Some of the troop pts costs are different, avg pikes in tt are 6 pts, here 11pts. You ahve to pay to buy lf support and then lf support is only relaly effective in support shooting and then only mounted (mf support shoots agst only foot). Terrain, command structure (800pts is prob the most played tt game and tehn youw ill avergae about 16bps!), battlegroups are bases and are from 2 to 12 bases each, generals (in the tt game you will prob field at least 3 gens at all times, most prob 4, in the pc game you cna quite easily field 1), also they have to be witha unit to rally them, shooting and combat (tt uses six sided dice, here %), also shooting happens in both players turns. Movement, your above example is achievable I believe in tt but only by drilled troops and then they would ahve to take a test. Undrilled troop can not turn 180 degrees let alone move backwards. Ligt troops lf and lh can just about do anything. Undrilled battle groups can not even wheel unless they ahve a general with them.

As for exploiting the rules. Well yes there are ways and means of doing it and once these things are classed as bugs and are erased AND more importantly enough players within the community agree that they are bugs and are erased, you play the game as it is. I enjoy this game immensely and the tt version. In my view, the various tweeks etc I would define as being skillful in the game. Every game has these tweeks and so on. Some people see them and some don't. I have helped numerous players with the basics of the game, dare I say more than anybody else and I am proud of that but I am not going to give all of my secrets away:)

I was many years ago a very good DBM player because of this. It was't just exploting the rules. It was just seeing the best opportunities and taking advantage of them.

Again instead of being a bit cheesed off with this game go out and play the TT game. You will really like it

I was one a big DBM player too but decided it was too abstract. Stopped playing ancients for about 10 years when FOG came out and that casued me to finish painting my Seleucid army. Interestingly, most or my local group stopped playing FOG TT long ago saying it is too fiddly. One now plays Hail Ceasar exclusively. I see on the minatures forum, others are moving on as well, many to FOG-R which they say gives a much more enjoyable game.

Back on topic, I think there's a difference between knowing the subtleties of the system and using them to your advantage (i.e. projecting how an evading unit will behave or setting up to rear charge a unit in pursuit) and knowing the design flaws of the system and exploiting them (i.e. stop and go movements to trick the program.)

Determining which is which is pretty subjective, I think. I'm looking for a game the mirrors history as much as possible. I usually pick a plausable DAG army and deploy it historically. I always deploy my Seleucid silver shields as a group and usually put them on the right flank where they belong. Others spread them out to bolster the other pikes. I think of that as a legally permisable exploit. Whatever. I have a lot of fun playing in Lysimachos' tournaments because he chooses historically plausable armies for both sides, often picking troop types never seen in DAG games.

Deeter

Same feedback here about FOG-Ren, although it does seem to be played more in the southern part of Britain.
Although therebare certain similarites between anc and ren.

I even played DBRen a few times and did quite well. I knew the mechanics of the DBM game and quickly adapted to the ren game, as they were/are similar. Again the same goes with FOG-Ren and Anc. Nope haven't played FOG-Ren yet. It has only been about a year since I started playing fog anc. Have had 18 competition games and about 3 friendlies leading up to it. Playing DBM I would practice with a very good friend who was also very good and a few other good mates. That kept me upto speed. With FOG anc no chance of practicing and so ma thrown into the deep end but have done reasonably well considering 7/16, 8/20, 18/50, 5/20 and 8/42. Unfortunately in 3 of those comps I was 5th, 2nd and joint 3rd (last 2 were doubles) and stumbled at the final hurdle. OK more like went crashing through it backwards:)

If you could please tell me how you know where some troops evade and or rout that would help. On ocassions yes you will know but sometimes, I don't think the computer knows let alone the player?

As for stop and go. It does make sense to me. In the heat of the battle, possibly at night, dusk, dawn, dust, snow, rain. You prob could not tell who was friend and foe so you would stop and go.You'd also stop and go to enable you to hit a flank or a rear, even prob turn 180 degrees to do so. Again to me it is logical and tactically spot on.

I think trying to fnd a game that mirrors history is going to be very difficult. Yes we have records about the Greeks and the Romans but generally they were the victors, we have no real idea about other armies, just a lot of educated guesswork. The reason I really enjoy ANcient is because of the diversity of the armies. Is it about 3000 years and probly 300 different armies, prob more.

Again that is why I never really like the Napoleonic or WWX periods. Not enough options for my liking.

Agreed about spreading out but once more as you are playing the game, I amy well call it skillful. Also there is a probability you will not be facing historical opponents so then who knows what a Seleukus, Alexander etc would do.

Thing is I mix but you still have to be careful as your opponent would prob charge into the average unit rather than the superior (BTW in FOG-REn, the Swiss pikeman are elite and armoured?????). Again you can compare what the Normans would do on ocassions. They would dismount their knights and put them in the front ranks to bolster it. Is that exploitation or good tactical sense?

OK I musy have a go at one of Lysimachos' comps. I do like many of the historical sceanrios and would really like to try some playing FOG-ANc. We played quite a few using DBM

Cheers

I

Speaking about another games. Anyone knows the Great Battles Collector's Edition?
It involves the 3 games, The Great Battles of Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar. They are the Pc adaptation of Ancient TT games made by GMT. Some say they are still the best rules for ancient games.

Cheers!

Hi

On second thought nope would not do Lysimachos' scenarios.

Using both armies on the same map nope not for me.

However using both armies that you have customized yourself and on different maps (mirror matches). Yep like that.

Fedem, I played some historical computer game a while back. It was Caesar's something but only had a few battles. I'd get bored after a while replaying something like that.

However a thought. Now if there was a campaign available involving historical opponents that might be of interest. The downside is it would have to be 2 players per army/team. I was never good (still am) at the political and economic stuff (trading, arranging alliances etc) I would just build the armies and fight.

Fedem wrote:Speaking about another games. Anyone knows the Great Battles Collector's Edition?
It involves the 3 games, The Great Battles of Alexander, Hannibal and Caesar. They are the Pc adaptation of Ancient TT games made by GMT. Some say they are still the best rules for ancient games.

Cheers!

Yes played it about 12 years ago, even then it was old. You'll need a emulator program for something like Windows 95.

I enjoyed playing it, and the scenario editor wasn't too hard to use.

IMHO teh PBEM++ server that Slitherine provides just trumps most things, even with the possiblity of opponents replaying turns. I've had to replay a few turns in the past due to crashes, have always told my opponents, and it's kinda wierd seeing yourself replay your turn and seeing exactly the same thing happening.