Slitherine

metolius wrote:I'd like to propose a simpler solution, which is simply that subs that attack a convoy that is 'un-escorted' -- in other words, does NOT have a naval unit adjacent when the attack occurs -- are not 'revealed' -- that is to say, they don't become visible.

The effect will be to force the Allies to have a DD, at least, with most convoys, and it will give the Germans easy targets if the Allies choose to not bother with escorted.

A refinement could be to have the sub ALSO revealed IF there is an air unit that is in range – in other words, that can 'see' the hex where the u-boat is.

This is simpler than the whole convoy formula-thing, and essentially sticks to the current game dynamics.

I think this is great. But in case it will be done some message should be added "sub attacks vs unescorted convoys - 3", because subs can't be seen.

Major changes in submarine warfare might unbalance a little the things in the Atlantic. Actually it is rather a pain for the allies if the axis organizes a good convoy campaign. I think that the best thing to do here is to leave the things as they are now and to only include a penalty in case of the allies have few naval units in the Atlantic.

Plaid wrote:I think this is great. But in case it will be done some message should be added "sub attacks vs unescorted convoys - 3", because subs can't be seen.

Thanks, Plaid – yes, I agree, you'd want the Allies to at least get some reports that their ships were getting sunk.

Hi,

It's my first post here, so be gentle

I must say that I'm enjoying the Battle of the Atlantic in CEAW a lot. I'm amazed how several simple rules can create such strategic dynamism which Hearts of Iron series failed to create for years with their industry, resource and stockpile systems. This doesn't mean that it cannot be better, though.

I'm opposed to static rules. There should be as much player involvement as possible. This is because the whole game is supposed to be centred around strategy and the strategical situation should be changing throughout the game. That's why I think that you should proceed with a combination of damage multipliers for unescorted convoys and invisible subs after attacks on unescorted convoys.

The damage multiplier thingy is good because it requires the participation of both sides. Currently even if the Allies ignore convoy escorts and are busy with e.g. intercepting Swedish iron ore, the Axis will not be able to do as much damage as one could think. The Allied income is so great and the convoy-sinking process takes so long that the Allies can be sure that some convoys will always get through even with ZERO escorts. This simple change would force them to care more about convoys IF the Axis is still a threat naval-wise.

The second rule (subs remaining invisible after attacking unescorted convoys) should be applied ONLY if the first one is applied, too. The reason for that is that bombers shouldn't be able to dominate the oceans on their own. Yes, they were a threat to the u-boats from 1942 on, but the Allies didn't suddenly stop escorting their convoys in e.g. 1943, when they gained the upper hand in the Battle of the Atlantic. Escorts were used for convoy protection throughout the war and it should be like that in-game, too. If the Allied player isn't doing enough to protect his convoys, then he should face the consequences.