Slitherine

Kerensky wrote:

deducter wrote:I thought Spoils of War, especially if the AI were better, was a fun map, historical or not. I guess I just like the Red Army vs Wehrmacht battles the most. If there's another beta I will play through on Manstein, which I very well may end up with a string of MVs unless I decide to be very aggressive and lose many units.

AI improvement are on the way in the update. Not just for spoils, but for all maps. A LOT of AI passive has been replaced by AI Active hold position.

Thats good news, far too often the AI lets you attack it without retailiation in certain places!

Though for the love of god leave the KV2s in spoils of war passive....I cant imagine what would happen if those beasts where unleashed against 1939 Wehrmacht troops!

I think I read in another thread that the KV-2 would be removed all together, which is historical (I know spoils is not historical but...)

From the Font of All Knowledge, Wikipedia:

Wikipedia wrote:In 1939 production of 50 KV was ordered. During the War, the Soviets found it difficult to deal with the concrete bunkers used by the Finns and a request was made for a tank with a large howitzer. One of the rush projects to meet the request put the howitzer in a new turret on one of the KV tanks. Initially known as Little Turret and Big turret, the 76-mm-armed tank was designated as the KV-1 Heavy Tank and the 152 mm howitzer one as KV-2 Heavy Artillery Tank.

Given that the Winter War didn't start until November 1939, a KV-2 in September/October is a little premature.

El_Condoro wrote:I think I read in another thread that the KV-2 would be removed all together, which is historical (I know spoils is not historical but...)

From the Font of All Knowledge, Wikipedia:

Wikipedia wrote:In 1939 production of 50 KV was ordered. During the War, the Soviets found it difficult to deal with the concrete bunkers used by the Finns and a request was made for a tank with a large howitzer. One of the rush projects to meet the request put the howitzer in a new turret on one of the KV tanks. Initially known as Little Turret and Big turret, the 76-mm-armed tank was designated as the KV-1 Heavy Tank and the 152 mm howitzer one as KV-2 Heavy Artillery Tank.

Given that the Winter War didn't start until November 1939, a KV-2 in September/October is a little premature.

It is but it was also a nice (if thats the right word) surprise...4 Pz38s took 2 turns to finish it off once it was at 4 strength with no ammo!!!

We can just think of it as a prototype.

El_Condoro wrote:We can just think of it as a prototype.

Good thinking that man!

What does AI activating mean? I can imagine several different ways to do that.
-AI activates if an enemy steps within range, but stays activated forever even if the enemy then retreats away.
-AI activates and attacks enemy within a range, but won't move farther than X from the guarded location.
-AI will only attack an adjacent hex (vulnerable to arty though) but never move.
-AI becomes able to buy and deploy units at that location only if activated by enemy adjacent.

Or something...

The KV-2 will not be removed. However it will receive a slight balance tweak to not be quite so deadly. (15 soft attack is a value no unit in the entire game has, even the su-152 with pretty much has the same gun doesnt have anywhere NEAR 15 soft attack)

As for AI active/passive different:

Passive will not move and will not initiate attacks against enemies.

Active will move if it sees an enemy unit within spotting range, and it will attack the unit if the odds are favorable.
In other words, that giant cluster of Polish units at Lodz? You better stay away from them or they WILL kick your ass now.

However I realized they are pretty close to the Piatek Victory hex in Lodz scenario, so that victory hex has been moved to accommodate the now more active polish units.

I am glad the KV-2 will stay and go RAWR!

The lower soft attack is a good decision. Did it really have 15 soft attack? ooops.


I think it's a good idea to have it. We all most probably know the stories of KV tanks blocking entire crossroads for hours if not almost a day. I just found the passage: "On 23–24 June, a single KV-2 effectively pinned down elements of the 6th Panzer Division – the spearhead of Panzergruppe 4 – for a full day at the bridgeheads of the Dubysa river near Raseiniai, Lithuania, playing a prominent role in delaying the German advance on Leningrad."

If this monster prevents a decisive victory or kills a few units: DEAL WITH IT!


It's only one tank and it can be an early lesson and exercise how to deal with better and sometimes vastly superior Russian tanks later on.
And it's not that Xitax and Horseman would not get the idea to use a Stuka or lure the tank in restricted terrain, where Infantry can destroy even the mightiest tanks.

Longasc wrote:I am glad the KV-2 will stay and go RAWR!

The lower soft attack is a good decision. Did it really have 15 soft attack? ooops.


I think it's a good idea to have it. We all most probably know the stories of KV tanks blocking entire crossroads for hours if not almost a day. I just found the passage: "On 23–24 June, a single KV-2 effectively pinned down elements of the 6th Panzer Division – the spearhead of Panzergruppe 4 – for a full day at the bridgeheads of the Dubysa river near Raseiniai, Lithuania, playing a prominent role in delaying the German advance on Leningrad."

If this monster prevents a decisive victory or kills a few units: DEAL WITH IT!


It's only one tank and it can be an early lesson and exercise how to deal with better and sometimes vastly superior Russian tanks later on.
And it's not that Xitax and Horseman would not get the idea to use a Stuka or lure the tank in restricted terrain, where Infantry can destroy even the mightiest tanks.

More like a Stuka and a Bf110 for about 3/4 turns then 2 aux unnits get badly mauled depleting ammo before 4 Pz38s and the Stuka and Bf110 spend several more turns finishing it off.....truly a beast!

Since we are already talking about the KV's, I'm hoping in the Barbarossa DLC we will see a half buried KV-2 special unit used as a pillbox where nothing more than the turret is visible. Just to see the unit model would me see bursting in joy.

I enjoyed the Spoils Mission to, I felt it was the toughest of the lot with the Russian counterattack. I concur on the variety of objectives and missions/maps allows for a better segway into the tougher parts of the overall game (eg. racing to the coast in the low countries ends up being more of solving a puzzle instead of worrying about the art)...1940 campaign next...

monkspider wrote:That IS an elegant solution to Spoils of War. Thanks for not dropping it from the campaign, I loves it.
Is there any possibility of a more interesting upgrade tree? Maybe throw in some extra panzer I/II models? Maybe a Panzer 35? You don't even have to use different graphics. I realize new units are supposed to be for expansions rather than DLC but maybe something could be done? That is the only significant fault that hasn't been addressed IMO.

I agree with this. I don't think you need new units. Just roll out the IA, then IB, II, then 38. Same for anti tank (88 too good) and artillery (only 75 at first). Would be easy to do. Love the changes to IA/B that makes it better at soft then II, the game is so much more interesting when there are strengths and weaknesses within classes to choose from (rather than you MUST buy the 38 since its better in every way).

If only I could persuade rate of fire introductions to units other than artillery. Wow, how neat it would get