Slitherine

shadowdragon wrote:..... The difference is certainly as much as 10 X and could be, especially for modern warfare, as much as 100 X.

"Lets have a fag and a brew and wait for the tank." This takes a bit longer, but is worth it.

Unless you're american and the fag.

If you are upset with the PD rules, the battlewagon rules must put you completely over the edge. Imagine,
You are permitted to unchain the wagons from one another, harness draft animals to the wagons, move, then unharness the draft animals, chain the wagons back together, etc. with a mere CMT. And you can do this regardless of the range of the enemy.

gozerius wrote:If you are upset with the PD rules, the battlewagon rules must put you completely over the edge. Imagine,
You are permitted to unchain the wagons from one another, harness draft animals to the wagons, move, then unharness the draft animals, chain the wagons back together, etc. with a mere CMT. And you can do this regardless of the range of the enemy.

And then get destroyed when the enemy attacks you in close combat for all your trouble.

Well, you are just a bunch of peasants, after all.
They should be FF, but then nobody would ever field Hussites, and there are just too many awesome looking battle wagon models, and it would be a shame to not put them on the table.
If only the game wasn't so dependant on maneuver....

philqw78 wrote:

shadowdragon wrote:..... The difference is certainly as much as 10 X and could be, especially for modern warfare, as much as 100 X.

"Lets have a fag and a brew and wait for the tank." This takes a bit longer, but is worth it.

Unless you're american and the fag.

Some Chinese armies used portable defences to great effect..

Hahaha, the deployment is too hard in it's current format.
Honestly how hard is it to throw a caltrop on the ground? Have you actually SEEN them? It takes about as much skill as opening a can of beer!
The only real test would be to STOP your troops deploying stakes and caltrops as soon as they see a single enemy horseman.
"Holy shit George there is the French! Deploy your shit boys!"
"Hang on lads, after a cup of tea...what???!!?"

I dropped a caltrop.

That is T-Shirt gold right there.

Lycanthropic wrote:Hahaha, the deployment is too hard in it's current format.
Honestly how hard is it to throw a caltrop on the ground? Have you actually SEEN them? It takes about as much skill as opening a can of beer!
The only real test would be to STOP your troops deploying stakes and caltrops as soon as they see a single enemy horseman.
"Holy shit George there is the French! Deploy your shit boys!"
"Hang on lads, after a cup of tea...what???!!?"

It wasn't a case of dropping a caltrop - it is a case of drop caltrip (and/or delpoy stakes) take them back up again. Drop them. Take them back up again.

Yes, I have seen caltrops. Stakes too. I've also had to deploy similar (barbed wire) in the field in real life - have you?

It's easy to take the simple example and say 'bah, how hard could it be?'

The 3" caltrop on a bowling green - easy to pick up, easy to deploy.

The 3" caltrop in long grass - a bit more difficult to deploy, a lot harder to pick up.

The 6' stake: needs to be hammered in, sharpened and then is 6" shorter. How many times can you do it? How long does it take? A lot longer than you would imagine I would think. Something similar to deploying barbed wire - and it's not a 2 second task.

Bowling greens? Barbed wire?

How fast can your professional fighting force throw down the caltrop?

Lycanthropic wrote:Bowling greens? Barbed wire?

How fast can your professional fighting force throw down the caltrop?

It wasn't a case of dropping a caltrop - it is a case of drop caltrip (and/or delpoy stakes) take them back up again. Drop them. Take them back up again.

As previously stated it doesn't seem to be a problem in the rules as they are self regulating. It just doesn't seem to happen much, but you're making a totally different point.

The placing and removing of PD may not be strictly historical (unless taking into account RBS view of where the battlefield is) but if it is stopped the game mechanics need to change. Because all mounted will do is wait until they are down, then go around the side. Leaving the foot stuck in place

And I have deployed caltrop in less than a second. Wire takes hours though.

philqw78 wrote:The placing and removing of PD may not be strictly historical (unless taking into account RBS view of where the battlefield is) but if it is stopped the game mechanics need to change. Because all mounted will do is wait until they are down, then go around the side. Leaving the foot stuck in place.

At Agincourt, the english deployed stakes, picked them up again, moved forward, placed them again.

What next? Battlewagons as mobile bunkers?

You're a bunker bro?

philqw78 wrote:Wire takes hours though.

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

2 men, one batch of concertina wire (which is the modern equiv of an inert PD) = about 10 minutes maximum including star pickets at either end. Without star pickets - about 2 minutes.

If it takes your army hours to set that up then... well, it explains the empire fading away I suppose.

ravenflight wrote:

philqw78 wrote:Wire takes hours though.

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

2 men, one batch of concertina wire (which is the modern equiv of an inert PD) = about 10 minutes maximum including star pickets at either end. Without star pickets - about 2 minutes.

If it takes your army hours to set that up then... well, it explains the empire fading away I suppose.

Well without the pickets one man could hold one end and the other run in the opposite direction. I take it you are fat so it takes you 2mins to run that far. But I suppose you're already a bit f***ed up after carrying a roll of razor wire around on your shoulder like a wooden stake.

If you want to stop anybody getting through it though its best to take your time and do it properly. If not the local civvis will have nicked your kit even before the enemy get to you.

Clearly you know what you are talking about.

Thats a 2 minute job, only 1 roll high. At least its on top of the hesco.

philqw78 wrote:Well without the pickets one man could hold one end and the other run in the opposite direction. I take it you are fat so it takes you 2mins to run that far. But I suppose you're already a bit f***ed up after carrying a roll of razor wire around on your shoulder like a wooden stake.

If you want to stop anybody getting through it though its best to take your time and do it properly. If not the local civvis will have nicked your kit even before the enemy get to you.

Clearly you know what you are talking about.

Thats a 2 minute job, only 1 roll high. At least its on top of the hesco.

Phil,

I made a more detailed post, but it was a bit inflammatory because it pointed out how painful you are to post to. Suffice to say I'm going to strongly curb replying to your posts. It's just too frustratingly painful to do. I'll just consider your posts to be like the heckler. Not worth paying attention to - and probably skim over without really reading. "Oh, that's a Philqw78 post - I'll just scroll down"

Clearly because I do not know what I am talking about.

philqw78 wrote:Clearly because I do not know what I am talking about.

Actually when it comes to how painful your posts are, you are painfully aware.



PS Ruddock says you are the lead weight for Lisbon. I don't think you can trust him. Afterall....