Slitherine

i Got my Dailami !

these are SUPERB !

when will we have the elephants??? and troops to make ghilmen etc for ghaznavids...

The elephants are in the can



You will have to wait til the New Year for these though!

I'm planning the 2nd phase release for the Persians now.

Basically more varieties of horse archer and more horse furniture types. Officers and standards.

If you want anything specific, now is the time to lobby.

thanks

Simon

ehhh...you sure they had howdas those elephants?...


You also need archers for the Dailami

Well you elephants and dailami can be used for persian armies as well, su doing Kurds, trurcs, ghilman and releasing other CV bow and CV Lance would that are not Sassanid would make me ... get in a shopping frenzy LOL

you sure they had howdas those elephants?...

there will be options...

For the moment I'm keen to try and make the range tight,no later than 6C Persia. Scope creep is not something I relish

list_lurker wrote:

you sure they had howdas those elephants?...

there will be options...

For the moment I'm keen to try and make the range tight,no later than 6C Persia. Scope creep is not something I relish

well ok and the non bysantine ennemies of the Sassanids?

well ok and the non bysantine ennemies of the Sassanids

Well, without giving the game away... the first half of next year Lurkio will be heading in the direction of the golden gate. I'm sorry if this disappoints.

nikgaukroger wrote:

Maniakes wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote: having also recently read Dennis' 2010 translation of Leo VI's Taktika

Ooh, ooh ...it's out! Must get to bookshop....

... Oh, in hardback and Amazon want an am and a leg. Might have to wait for the paperback

I'm not sure Dunbarton Oaks ever publish paperbacks

I guess you could borrow it from somebody if they were kind ...

I picked mine up at the Harvard Coop. It is for sale in stores. A true Byzantine fanatic does not count the cost when books like the Taktika are available. This is the golden age of Byzantine military books in translation. The recently published Skylitzes Chronicle, Leo the Deacon and now the Taktika. Specialist works like The Age of the Hippokonistai and McGeer's Sowing the Dragon's Teeth are also available

Paul G

Well, one option is since the manuals describe them as "picked troops" and they should be exceptionally strong they could perhaps be classed as superior rather than average. In BG's of 2-4 this would let them better simulate their perceived effect. The men writing the military manuals of the later 10th century were experienced soldiers and would certainly not have described them as effective if they were not. A little facetiously, since thier job was to break up shock cavalry charges on the infantry, maybe making them field fortifications would be the right effect. At any rate, menaulatoi are the least of the problems with the Nikephorian Byzantine list.

Paul G

ShrubMiK wrote:I guess it depends on what you think the historical role/purpose of the menavlatoi was. I thought it was specifically intended as a counter to enemy shock cavalry charging you, so an appropriate FoG classification should reflect that.

Perhaps I should take the time to read that article and see if it changes my mind

But note that "stiffening" poorer quality troops implies to me they become more resilient, not more aggressive as a whole. Offensive Spear is not an upgrade over Defensive Spear unless you want to attack with them. And if you choose to form a line consisting of a mix of DS and OS you should expect a good chance of running into trouble at some point.

And not sure about their manoeuvre capbility either. Personally if I was carrying a menavlionmyself I would be knackered after dragging it 20 paces forward, let alone ferociously charging across the fields whilst banging shield and spear together above my head to intimidate the enemy!

list_lurker wrote:

well ok and the non bysantine ennemies of the Sassanids

Well, without giving the game away... the first half of next year Lurkio will be heading in the direction of the golden gate. I'm sorry if this disappoints.

Yee Ha! Given what I've seen of the Sassanids, that'll be good news. Especially, if we have great command figures. A triple command pack of Basil II, Nikephoras Phokas and John Tzimiskes would be great.

Paul G

ShrubMiK wrote:I guess it depends on what you think the historical role/purpose of the menavlatoi was. I thought it was specifically intended as a counter to enemy shock cavalry charging you, so an appropriate FoG classification should reflect that.

Perhaps I should take the time to read that article and see if it changes my mind

But note that "stiffening" poorer quality troops implies to me they become more resilient, not more aggressive as a whole. Offensive Spear is not an upgrade over Defensive Spear unless you want to attack with them. And if you choose to form a line consisting of a mix of DS and OS you should expect a good chance of running into trouble at some point.

And not sure about their manoeuvre capbility either. Personally if I was carrying a menavlionmyself I would be knackered after dragging it 20 paces forward, let alone ferociously charging across the fields whilst banging shield and spear together above my head to intimidate the enemy!

Well perhaps the menavlion bearers were in slightly better shape than you (and certainly me) and didn't find it as much of a burden. Remember those who described them in the later manuals were experienced soldiers who had seen them in action.

Paul G

I wasn't suggesting they would be immobile - just (in a facetious manner I will admit) that I hadn't seen anything either in any description of the weapon itself or the tactical usage of the troops carrying that would remotely suggest offensive spear would be the right take on it. A super strong spear would be unnecessary hindrance if charging enemy foot, I would have thought.

Field fortifications is an interesting one - a bit odd certainly, but yes with just enough of a grasp on reality to be mildly intriguing!

ShrubMiK wrote:I wasn't suggesting they would be immobile - just (in a facetious manner I will admit) that I hadn't seen anything either in any description of the weapon itself or the tactical usage of the troops carrying that would remotely suggest offensive spear would be the right take on it. A super strong spear would be unnecessary hindrance if charging enemy foot, I would have thought.

Field fortifications is an interesting one - a bit odd certainly, but yes with just enough of a grasp on reality to be mildly intriguing!

Given their role which was to stand in front of charging enemy cavalry and break up their attack, it might actually be more important for them to have better morale, ie be condisered Superior, as opposed to what they were armed with. Then LS/SW, Def Sp, Off Sp, HW are not so relevant. They were certainly highly thought of by the manual writers and making them MF is probable another consideration.

Paul G

I agree - that was what I was implying with my "stiffening" comment earlier.

Possibly allowing some def spear BGs to be upgraded to reflect the fact they contain integral menavlatoi would do it. Although that seems a bit lacking in flavour.

Better IMO to have small BGs of detached superior menavlatoi. Their stiffening effect could then be abstract - i.e. their ability to provide rear support reasonably cost effectively to the unwashed plebs forming the main infantry line. Or more concrete - interleave them in the main line, with the added possibility that they have increased likelihood of causing cavalry facing them to break off whilst cavalry facing the average joes stick around to get overwhelmed next turn.

And with the added option of being used as a handy reserve, to plug gaps in the line or outflank when an opportunity presents itself.

That last is where under current rules making them MF would perhaps be a better fit, but unfortunately blows their supposed anti-cav role out of the water.