Slitherine

as a follow up...

the LF evade and clear the Cav causing the Cav to be revealed within the original charge path. Does the LH roll a VMD in pursuit or normal charge movement cav stopping 1 MU away.(no vmd normal move sj, yes VMD mike)

Can the LH deviate (wheel) to follow the LF had the LF been at an angle.(SJ no, Mike yes) or must the LH follow original path towards the Cv (SJ yes, Mike no) since the CV became a viable target once revealed by the evading LF

... oh what fun...


Madcam

philqw78 wrote:And the law is an Ass. Perhaps there was a reason the rule was written the way it was. But IMO the revealed target, if fragmented, should have to take a CT for being charged. If it passes then the LH could stop. But that isn't the way it is written.

Why would a BG that cannot be legally contacted by the charge have to take a CT? The LH cannot contact the cav because it did not pass a CMT. The Cav are not a charge target.

gozerius wrote:

philqw78 wrote:And the law is an Ass. Perhaps there was a reason the rule was written the way it was. But IMO the revealed target, if fragmented, should have to take a CT for being charged. If it passes then the LH could stop. But that isn't the way it is written.

Why would a BG that cannot be legally contacted by the charge have to take a CT? The LH cannot contact the cav because it did not pass a CMT. The Cav are not a charge target.

Thats why the rule is arse. It doesn't have to. But IMO should. IMO you should try reading what you are replying to.

madcam2us wrote:as a follow up...

the LF evade and clear the Cav causing the Cav to be revealed within the original charge path. Does the LH roll a VMD in pursuit or normal charge movement cav stopping 1 MU away.(no vmd normal move sj, yes VMD mike)

Can the LH deviate (wheel) to follow the LF had the LF been at an angle.(SJ no, Mike yes) or must the LH follow original path towards the Cv (SJ yes, Mike no) since the CV became a viable target once revealed by the evading LF

... oh what fun...


Madcam

My thought process on this matter is this, the original target was the LF. No other target during the declaration of charge phase. LF evade using the VMD as does the LH chasing the buggers. IF the LF deviated or originated with an angle so would get out of the original path of the LH and now reveals the Cav as a POSSIBLE target, not the original, the LH has the option to wheel and pursue.

To put a better spin on this would be change the LH to KN. The LF run for there life and hope they can get behind the CAV and SUCCEED!!! But now the Cav are sayin " OH CRAP!!"... The Lucky Knights rolled a 6 on the VMD and since the target is now revealed and can be a target... slam home against the CAV, unless they are in line and have the option to flee.

mhohio wrote:thank you all....

Tell us more, tell us more.

madcam2us wrote:as a follow up...

the LF evade and clear the Cav causing the Cav to be revealed within the original charge path. Does the LH roll a VMD in pursuit or normal charge movement cav stopping 1 MU away.(no vmd normal move sj, yes VMD mike)

Can the LH deviate (wheel) to follow the LF had the LF been at an angle.(SJ no, Mike yes) or must the LH follow original path towards the Cv (SJ yes, Mike no) since the CV became a viable target once revealed by the evading LF

... oh what fun...


Madcam

Dan would you be kind enough to give some answers in this multiple question of Scott's......

Cavalry are not a target because the LH could not take a CMT to charge them when the charge was declared.
If all the targets evade, the chargers roll a VMD: The only targets are the LF so the LH take a VMD.
The LH cannot deviate unless all the targets wheel out of the path of the charge.

rogerg wrote:The only targets are the LF so the LH take a VMD.
The LH cannot deviate unless all the targets wheel out of the path of the charge.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but the statement above, have I got it right a BG evades from a charge if the BG stays within the direction of the charge the charging BG can not wheel off in a different direction?

david53 wrote:

rogerg wrote:The only targets are the LF so the LH take a VMD.
The LH cannot deviate unless all the targets wheel out of the path of the charge.

Sorry for hijacking the thread but the statement above, have I got it right a BG evades from a charge if the BG stays within the direction of the charge the charging BG can not wheel off in a different direction?

If the evading BG is still in the path of the charge the chargers cannot change the path of their charge.

rogerg wrote:Cavalry are not a target because the LH could not take a CMT to charge them when the charge was declared.
If all the targets evade, the chargers roll a VMD: The only targets are the LF so the LH take a VMD.
The LH cannot deviate unless all the targets wheel out of the path of the charge.

Roger,

Do you see your first sentence at issue with how BGs become targets if friends reveal them via evading/routing per page 52?

I do. Yes, the LH wouldn't be able to contact the cv and would have to stop 1 MU away, but the Cv are certainly a target by definition. Since the Cv, by definition are a target that didn't evade, the LH can't VMD nor deviate to follow the LF as they still have a target in the original path..


Madcam.

philqw78 wrote:

gozerius wrote:

philqw78 wrote:And the law is an Ass. Perhaps there was a reason the rule was written the way it was. But IMO the revealed target, if fragmented, should have to take a CT for being charged. If it passes then the LH could stop. But that isn't the way it is written.

Why would a BG that cannot be legally contacted by the charge have to take a CT? The LH cannot contact the cav because it did not pass a CMT. The Cav are not a charge target.

Thats why the rule is arse. It doesn't have to. But IMO should. IMO you should try reading what you are replying to.

I did read what I replied to. Do you also believe other BGs that can't be legally contacted by chargers should have to CT if fragged? If a BG cannot be contacted by the charger it is not a target. In this case, even though it lies in line with the original charge path, the fact that skirmishers are required to pull up short means they are not valid charge targets. Since all valid charge targets have evaded out of the original charge path, the LH has the option to wheel to follow the evaders.

No, I think the LH should be able to take a CT when the enemy evade has uncovered the fragged BG as a possible target.

gozerius wrote:

philqw78 wrote:

gozerius wrote: Why would a BG that cannot be legally contacted by the charge have to take a CT? The LH cannot contact the cav because it did not pass a CMT. The Cav are not a charge target.

Thats why the rule is arse. It doesn't have to. But IMO should. IMO you should try reading what you are replying to.

I did read what I replied to. Do you also believe other BGs that can't be legally contacted by chargers should have to CT if fragged? If a BG cannot be contacted by the charger it is not a target. In this case, even though it lies in line with the original charge path, the fact that skirmishers are required to pull up short means they are not valid charge targets. Since all valid charge targets have evaded out of the original charge path, the LH has the option to wheel to follow the evaders.

Fragged skirmishers must test when charged even where their evade move would make them impossible to catch (e.g., LH charged by HF that are exactly 3MU away). So forcing a test by fragged troops that cannot be contacted by the chargers already exists in the rules.

Spike

philqw78 wrote:No, I think the LH should be able to take a CT when the enemy evade has uncovered the fragged BG as a possible target.

Maybe, but the rules clearly prohibit this. The LH need not and CANNOT test to charge targets that become eligible only after an evade or rout.

Spike

philqw78 wrote:No, I think the LH should be able to take a CT when the enemy evade has uncovered the fragged BG as a possible target.

Would you give the LH the option NOT to take the follow-up CMT?

Indeed, this rule would open gimmicks where a group of non-skirmisher enemy would "screen" other skirmishers and/or bait charges by LH that they'd prefer to avoid. For every scenario where the LH might want to take and pass the CMT, there are plenty of others where the LH would happily charge skirmishers but would hope to fail the follow-through CMT.

Spike

Fragged skirmishers must test when charged even where their evade move would make them impossible to catch (e.g., LH charged by HF that are exactly 3MU away). So forcing a test by fragged troops that cannot be contacted by the chargers already exists in the rules.

This is a different situation. The CT here is in response to the charge. If they stand to receive, and there may be circumstances where you would want to do that, the HF can hit them. In the circumstance above, the LH are not allowed to make contact, so no CT is appropriate.

No. I would give skirmishers the option of taking the CMT any time they charged, before they charged.

kevinj wrote:

Fragged skirmishers must test when charged even where their evade move would make them impossible to catch (e.g., LH charged by HF that are exactly 3MU away). So forcing a test by fragged troops that cannot be contacted by the chargers already exists in the rules.

This is a different situation. The CT here is in response to the charge. If they stand to receive, and there may be circumstances where you would want to do that, the HF can hit them. In the circumstance above, the LH are not allowed to make contact, so no CT is appropriate.

No rules at hand, but I am pretty sure that fragged skirmishers may not receive a charge.

Spike

No rules at hand, but I am pretty sure that fragged skirmishers may not receive a charge.

I can't see anything that stops them, except for failing the CT for being charged while fragged.

spikemesq wrote:

kevinj wrote:

Fragged skirmishers must test when charged even where their evade move would make them impossible to catch (e.g., LH charged by HF that are exactly 3MU away). So forcing a test by fragged troops that cannot be contacted by the chargers already exists in the rules.

This is a different situation. The CT here is in response to the charge. If they stand to receive, and there may be circumstances where you would want to do that, the HF can hit them. In the circumstance above, the LH are not allowed to make contact, so no CT is appropriate.

No rules at hand, but I am pretty sure that fragged skirmishers may not receive a charge.

Spike

Receiving a charge is slightly different from standing to take it. When fragged they must take a CT for being charged and then, if feeling particularly brave, CMT to stand against non-skirmishers.

I wouldn't like to stand, as if the non-skirmishers were steady it would be 4 dice to 1 on a 2 base frontage!