Slitherine

hammy wrote:

kevinj wrote:

Granted as a 'freebie' it is very nice. It is probably worth about half a point

I agree, it's a nice to have but most of us don't look at a list and start with "How many free Light Spear foot can I have?"

I think there's a better case for Cavalry Light Spear being free as they seem to be very much the unwanted relation of the mounted world.

Nah, light spear mounted are great. No really they are.....

The aren't shock so they can evade when they get into a mess and they get a better POA than lancers against several troop types. The main problem is finding an army that can have plenty of decent light spear cavalry.

Merovingian (early) is good for this - undrilled armoured cav, light spear sword. 12 pointsa base and very flexible. Dismount as armoured superior IF, Sword too....

philqw78 wrote:

spikemesq wrote:

Against bow sword cavaly the same is true and not being forced to charge means it is more likley you will be able to block the evade of the shooty cavalry.

Lancers get a + here and LSp don't.

Yes they do. Light Spear get a plus as without it they would be even against bow sw cav. They do not inflict a - in CT though.

OK, I fumbled the POA factors of LSp v. Bw/Sw Cv. Advantage LSp.

Against medium foot spear light spear cav are better and they are the same as lancers against light spear and impact foot medium foot.

True on MF Sp. Otherwise, any non-lancer Cv are the same as Lancers here with or without the point for LSp.

No. Bow/SW Cav are even v's most MF (Off Sp, Def Sp, IF, Lt Sp) and where the BW Sw are even Lt Sp will be plus (as are lancers). Where Bow/Sw cav are at plus the Lt Sp is also at +. All inflict a minus on the CT v's the MF. Basically Lt Sp is the best mounted weapon for use against MF.

OK, I goofed this one too. Against MF in the open, LSp and Lancers come out the same.

But where are the match-ups that yield a better POA for LSp than for Lancers mentioned earlier?

Spike

Is dumb.

spikemesq wrote: But where are the match-ups that yield a better POA for LSp than for Lancers mentioned earlier?

Spike

Is dumb.

Lt Sp mounted versus MF Off or Def Sp. The lancers do not count lance as the Sp are steady. All mounted count + v's MF, which brings the mounted to even, so the Lt Sp kicks in.

Your not that dumb Spike

The main interraction where light spear cavalry are better than lancers is as you pointed out medium foot spear. They are also better than lancers against the Byzantine and Burgundian half HF dspear, half bow formations.

Buying light spear cavalry is something you do not because you want lots of POAs although you do actually get a fair few. It is something you do if you don't want your cavalry running off and getting them selves in trouble or forcing you to attack where you would rather not for the moment at least.

I have seriously considered using knights with no lance POA for exactly the same reasons.

Or as Hammy says v's one rank of spear, and also less than 3 ranks of pike.

philqw78 wrote:

spikemesq wrote: But where are the match-ups that yield a better POA for LSp than for Lancers mentioned earlier?

Spike

Is dumb.

Lt Sp mounted versus MF Off or Def Sp. The lancers do not count lance as the Sp are steady. All mounted count + v's MF, which brings the mounted to even, so the Lt Sp kicks in.

Also versus Lancers in any terrain other than open.

hammy wrote:Buying light spear cavalry is something you do not because you want lots of POAs although you do actually get a fair few. It is something you do if you don't want your cavalry running off and getting them selves in trouble or forcing you to attack where you would rather not for the moment at least.

Also when in single rank they can evade anything nasty.

But they are a POA up vs shooty cavalry at impact.

hammy wrote:

kevinj wrote:

Granted as a 'freebie' it is very nice. It is probably worth about half a point

I agree, it's a nice to have but most of us don't look at a list and start with "How many free Light Spear foot can I have?"

I think there's a better case for Cavalry Light Spear being free as they seem to be very much the unwanted relation of the mounted world.

Nah, light spear mounted are great. No really they are.....

The aren't shock so they can evade when they get into a mess and they get a better POA than lancers against several troop types. The main problem is finding an army that can have plenty of decent light spear cavalry.

Try Late Achaemenids. Pretty much as much decent (armoured superior) or cheap and dodgy (protected poor) and everything in between light spear cavalry as you could want. (This assumes that the cavalry do not need to be drilled to be decent .)

Chris

batesmotel wrote:

hammy wrote:Nah, light spear mounted are great. No really they are.....

The aren't shock so they can evade when they get into a mess and they get a better POA than lancers against several troop types. The main problem is finding an army that can have plenty of decent light spear cavalry.

Try Late Achaemenids. Pretty much as much decent (armoured superior) or cheap and dodgy (protected poor) and everything in between light spear cavalry as you could want. (This assumes that the cavalry do not need to be drilled to be decent .)

OK, there seem to be quite a lot of options, just none that I can field with my available models (and I have a LOT of Ancients models) At the moment the likelyhood of me gettin a whole new army is quite low as I can't justify buying painted stuff any more and all my modeling time is being devoted to Flames of War not FoG.

hammy wrote:I have seriously considered using knights with no lance POA for exactly the same reasons.

I don't have the rules to hand, but aren't all knights shock troops whether they have Lance POA or not ?

Polkovnik wrote:

hammy wrote:I have seriously considered using knights with no lance POA for exactly the same reasons.

I don't have the rules to hand, but aren't all knights shock troops whether they have Lance POA or not ?

No, lancers are shock troops. It is based on the impact capability.