Slitherine

nikgaukroger wrote:So there would be a case for Musket* for the Imperials at the start of the war perhaps?

rbodleyscott wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:So there would be a case for Musket* for the Imperials at the start of the war perhaps?

Not if they are in BGs with 6 pike and 6 shot. That already gives a 1:1 ratio, without resorting to Musket*.

nikgaukroger wrote:

rbodleyscott wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:So there would be a case for Musket* for the Imperials at the start of the war perhaps?

Not if they are in BGs with 6 pike and 6 shot. That already gives a 1:1 ratio, without resorting to Musket*.

Imperials appear to be more 3:2, it is the Bavarians who are 1:1.

nikgaukroger wrote:[

nikgaukroger wrote: 5. Tataschiere - I'm intrigued as to what these are

Hmmm, actually I mispelled them, darn! It should be Tartschier (Tartsche is an old Term for Shield)
These guys (right side):


While they lock a bit like Sword and Buckler men they originally developed from the forlorn hopes of the Landsknechts. Their shield and body armour was supposedly bullet proof and their main job was dispersing 'unprotected' musketeers (i.e. pure musketeer units with no pikes). I was actually tempted to class them as impact foot, but that might overstate their efficiency. Sometimes they were also used as sort of an shield to protect the pikes of an incoming Tercio from enemy fire during before closing in. There were never enough of them to do that on a large scale (as was recommended in some manuals), as the cost of their armour was forbiddingly high. One of the reasons they fell out of favour. Might be sensible to restrict their use to before 1640 or actually 1638 (the last time I can recall them being mentioned).

Ah them. Montecuccoli mentions them as well - although, IIRC, he admits there will never be enough of them. I wonder if we should really be having separate bodies of them - somewhere I have a picture of them (or similar troops) supportimg shot types.

Ghaznavid wrote: Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

nikgaukroger wrote:

Ghaznavid wrote: Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

Just an approximation

nikgaukroger wrote: If they are meant to take out musketeer bodies is there an argument that they should be MF to be more able to winkle them out of terrain?

rbodleyscott wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:

Ghaznavid wrote: Can't follow your math. With 100 (or even the nominal 120) pikes to 160 muskets, how do you arrive at 3:2 for the Imperials?

Just an approximation

I think you guys are talking at cross purposes.

I (can only) assume Nik means 3:2 shot:pike, not the other way round as the above suggests.

Ghaznavid wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote: If they are meant to take out musketeer bodies is there an argument that they should be MF to be more able to winkle them out of terrain?

Possibly, but I don't remember reading anything that suggests so. OTOH I found only two mentionings of Tartschiere operating alone and in sizable numbers and I don't remember reading anything about musket regiments hiding in terrain at those occasions ... there might be a connection...
One could make them optional MF/HF kinda like the Landsknecht forlone hopes.

Ghaznavid wrote:
While 3:2 Shoot:Pike makes sense I can't see how that makes him arrive at musket* ...

Ghaznavid wrote:Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed

it is IMO important to replace it with something else to ensure there are 1-2 BGs of Kürassiers that will be set apart from the mass of them as well as give the player of a Swedish army a REAL reason to worry about. Just like they did for Gustav-Adolph. Failing to produce a better idea I suggest an upgrade to elite for 0-8 of them.

Danish
The German Merc foot pikes can only be unarmoured now, is that intentional? It's a bit of a kilter with other infantry of the time, even from the same list.

nikgaukroger wrote:

Ghaznavid wrote:Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed

All still have Pistol impact capability in my version of the lists ../

Ghaznavid wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote:

Ghaznavid wrote:Early 30YW Catholics
Since the impact capability for some of the Kürassiers has been removed

All still have Pistol impact capability in my version of the lists ../

Yeah, I meant to write Impact Horse, to tired, night shift was kinda lively. So of to bed I go.