Slitherine

mikekh wrote: Are there many Mac users for this app?


Thanks

Mike

I am a Mac user and am interested in your app.

Marc

babyshark wrote:

mikekh wrote: Are there many Mac users for this app?


Thanks

Mike

I am a Mac user and am interested in your app.

Marc

Ok, I'll make sure the app is built under Java 1.5 and it should be ok - it works on mine.

The latest version is up on the website https://sites.google.com/site/armylistbuilder/home in the downloads page.

I've added sorting on the 'March Order' column. The columns can be resized as well. The biggest difference is the reworking of the top half - Generals, Fortifications etc are now accessed via a menu (see 'ListDetails' on the menu bar.)
I've also added an option to enter terrain choices.
It will also now run on a Mac if Apple's Java 1.5 is installed.

There are two 'major' functions missing:

Printing, will include saving/printing to PDF - I hope to start this tomorrow
User details. This will be a dialog to get things like the persons name, email, etc etc , mainly for tournaments. Any comments on what's needed for this would be welcome.

Again I'd welcome any bug reports and constructive criticism.

Thanks

Mike

Mike,

I had a quick look and I like some of the changes

1. the dragable column sizes
2. The entry of some data with buttons etc.

I do not like

1. The amount of 'real estate' devoted to the headers.
2. That I have to click in a menu to enter data - it should be all on the page espoecially given point 1
3. Portable defences should be tied to the troops carying them - such thaqt if I change the number of troops, the defences change with them else I will forget as I develop a list.
4. It needs to remember the column widths I use or at least have a rerasonable default as I do not want to drag them every time I use it.

This is looking really good.

The only issue I've noticed is that sometimes, if I select a row in which I've created a unit in order to copy it using the pull-down function, the detail reverts to the defaults for that type.

Otherwise, I've some minor suggestions for ease of use:

1) Set the default for sub-general to TC. Is it possible to just check/uncheck the box rather than make each one Active?

2) Reorder the Types so that the most common are at the top and things like Battle Wagons/Artillery are at the bottom.

3) Can you add logic to the lookups so that only appropriate ones appear, e.g no armour options for chariots, no Artillery for Cavalry.

4) Should Off/Def Spear be included in Melee (as HW and Pike are). Could this be automated for those options where they are the same?

5) It would be nice to be able to set our own defaults for each type.

How do I set up combined units? Personally this is the area that has caused greatest problems with trying to create any form of automated list builder.

Thank you for your work on this so far,

Kevin

kevinj wrote:This is looking really good.

The only issue I've noticed is that sometimes, if I select a row in which I've created a unit in order to copy it using the pull-down function, the detail reverts to the defaults for that type.

Otherwise, I've some minor suggestions for ease of use:

1) Set the default for sub-general to TC. Is it possible to just check/uncheck the box rather than make each one Active?

2) Reorder the Types so that the most common are at the top and things like Battle Wagons/Artillery are at the bottom.

3) Can you add logic to the lookups so that only appropriate ones appear, e.g no armour options for chariots, no Artillery for Cavalry.

4) Should Off/Def Spear be included in Melee (as HW and Pike are). Could this be automated for those options where they are the same?

5) It would be nice to be able to set our own defaults for each type.

How do I set up combined units? Personally this is the area that has caused greatest problems with trying to create any form of automated list builder.

Thank you for your work on this so far,

Kevin

Not sure what you mean with select and copy with the pull down function.The easiest way to select a unit is to click on the row header on the left, i.e the small green box with the row number you can then use the copy function from the menu or, with the unit still selected move the mouse to the right into the main grid and use the right button to get a popup. (That sounds much more fiddly than it is have a try).

For combined units
1.Select the first unit - click the row header as described above.
2 Hold control down and select the second unit - again using the row header.
3. When you have two complete units selected use the right mouse buttom to get the popup and see that the 'merge battle groups' option is enabled - select it and that's it.

You can also select by dragging the mouse in the row number column.
Generally I use the row header column most of the time when selectiing units it just gets the whole row in one go. Have a play around.



The merge function is also on the top menu. Basically you need two complete units selected to enable creating combined units. By 'complete' I mean there must be an entry in every column from 'Type' onwards. The 'March Order' and 'Name' columns can be blank.

For the individual points you mention above.
1. I can make the default general a TC. Having an 'activate' checkbox makes the logic for the others simpler - but it actually might be simpler to allow none to be selected - I'll look into it.

2. That can be done at some point - but the columns are 'sensitive' to letters. Go to the 'Type' column and hit the 'c' key on the keyboard several times. The entry changes each time - 'Camelry', 'Cavalry' and 'Cataphracts' I think. The other columns are the same- when there is a choic from a drop down the keyboard gives useful shortcuts.

3. The logic is sort of there - at the moment the phrase '-- Other--' implies, for example, no armour with chariots. I have some unreleased code that dynamically changes what available in other columns based on whats initially selected in the'Type' column but its not quite ready.

4. I'll have a look at it.

5. Yes,customisabe defaults is on my todo list


Hope this helps and thanks for the feedback.


Cheers

Mike

timurilenk wrote:Mike,

I had a quick look and I like some of the changes

1. the dragable column sizes
2. The entry of some data with buttons etc.

I do not like

1. The amount of 'real estate' devoted to the headers.
2. That I have to click in a menu to enter data - it should be all on the page espoecially given point 1
3. Portable defences should be tied to the troops carying them - such thaqt if I change the number of troops, the defences change with them else I will forget as I develop a list.
4. It needs to remember the column widths I use or at least have a rerasonable default as I do not want to drag them every time I use it.

Thanks for the comments.
In response to your points

1 and 2. This is the second iteration of headers and actually there were 2 others before I put anything out. I've not yet found the 'best' way of getiing 'ancillary' details into the list. Generals and Terrain are usually the less frequent interactions. At least for me anyway. Pick the generals and then into the details of the units and maybe go back later and tweak the generals.
Terrain - I've only just put in and have found no unusual usage pattern - do once or twice per list. Not sure yet what to do about the headers - maybe get more opinions?

3. Following on from 1 and 2. Good point you raise about PDs - it could get irritating having to keep popping the fortification dialog. The camp is probaly ok on a menu, but I'll look into tieing units with portable defences.


4. Just plain forgot that one - I'll put it in.


Thanks

Mike

I'm off for a week and won't be working on it. When I'm back I'll get the print functions done and then maybe we can see what else needs doing based on what you guys think.
I'm quite interested in users that don't like it. If you don't like it , what don't you like? What doesn't it do that you think it should.
I just put this together based on how I manually write a list. My perceptions may well be different to others.

Longer term I want to include a 'battlefield view'. This would be a graphical plan view. Each BG would be represented by a number of correctly scaled rectangles (ie one for each element in the BG)
and would be shown in whatever formation the user wanted (and could be easily changed) You could then deploy the BGs on a top down view of the game area, again all in correct scale and ratio. It would also include some 'stock' items of terrain that could be placed in the view and maybe even a facility to import terrain pieces - the idea here is that you could scan the outline of your favouite hill and include it in the view. I'm not sure of the true utility of this but it would be fun to code and nice to play with.

Mike

mikekh wrote:I' I'm not sure of the true utility of this but it would be fun to code and nice to play with.

Mike

and excellent for AAR

Hi, Mike,

Nice job

A small problem : testing it with starter armies of Oath of Fealty, I have always 4 groups of BG with 3 generals

Am I alone ?

Thanks

Robert

Mike,

Thank you for the extra information, the combined unit function works well.

[/quote]Not sure what you mean with select and copy with the pull down function.

If you select a row and move the mouse to the bottom right you can drag down and copy in the same way as in Excel. It's great if you want to add multiple copies of a BG.



Kevin

98807robert wrote:Hi, Mike,

Nice job

A small problem : testing it with starter armies of Oath of Fealty, I have always 4 groups of BG with 3 generals

Am I alone ?

Thanks

Robert

I'm not sure what you mean. You can have just 1 general (in fact you must have at least 1 general) and then you can have up to 3 more. How do you get to having always 3 generals? Same with BGs. If you have 4 or more BGs then you will have 4 groups.
Can you post a screen shot or a step by step description of how to reproduce the problem?

Thanks

Mike

kevinj wrote:Mike,

Thank you for the extra information, the combined unit function works well.

Not sure what you mean with select and copy with the pull down function.

If you select a row and move the mouse to the bottom right you can drag down and copy in the same way as in Excel. It's great if you want to add multiple copies of a BG.



Kevin

[/quote]

Thanks Kevin.
I don't use Excel but I'll have a look at it and see if I can create the same function.


Mike

mikekh wrote:

98807robert wrote:Hi, Mike,

Nice job

A small problem : testing it with starter armies of Oath of Fealty, I have always 4 groups of BG with 3 generals

Am I alone ?

Thanks

Robert

I'm not sure what you mean. You can have just 1 general (in fact you must have at least 1 general) and then you can have up to 3 more. How do you get to having always 3 generals? Same with BGs. If you have 4 or more BGs then you will have 4 groups.
Can you post a screen shot or a step by step description of how to reproduce the problem?

Thanks

Mike

My mistake, sorry, just beginning to read the book !

Robert

Latest version is now available (at https://sites.google.com/site/armylistbuilder/home )

Main changes includes 'Print' and 'Print Preview'.

The print function prints the table and the details - details being generals, deployment etc. etc.
It's setup to default to A4 in Landscape.

The PrintPreview is not quite finished - it doesn't yet preview the details - but it's included anyway.
Also added a function to save the column widths (under the List Details menu). The saved widths are global and
not on a per army-list basis. If you want to go back to the default widths just look for and delete a file called colWidths.fog
(You'll find it in the same folder as the main application).

Cheers

Mike

MacMe is a Mac user

I'll download it when I get a spare moment

Mike - thanks for doing this.

Have you looked at the spreadsheet that most people use?

That is the thing you will be compared to.

timurilenk wrote:Mike - thanks for doing this.

Have you looked at the spreadsheet that most people use?

That is the thing you will be compared to.

Yes, I found it awkward to use. Lots of #ERROR in cells and non-existent handling of combined groups.
I think that this app does all that the spreadsheet does and more.

The spreadsheet is an application of a spreadsheet whereas this is an application specifically for army lists and has potentiallty far gretaer scope and fucntionality.

Cheers

Mike

... also I'd like to extend it to be 'web enabled' where users can post their lists directly to a server - this could be a means of organising a tournament and allowing entrants to submit their lists for validation etc.


Mike

mikekh wrote:... also I'd like to extend it to be 'web enabled' where users can post their lists directly to a server - this could be a means of organising a tournament and allowing entrants to submit their lists for validation etc.


Mike

At many tournaments, we are lucky to get lists in on time in any format