Slitherine

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:16 am I appreciate Pete has said he doesn't want a copy and paste successor to the DL (though it is hardly a copyright issue ) but just adopting the simple and uncomplicated existing system of scoring would seem reasonable wouldn't it ?

Pete, what on earth would you gain ( or lose) from seeing your scoring system adopted in the new League ?

Surely if anything it would be a nice legacy for everything you accomplished with the iterations of the FoGDL .... ?

It looks like those who are thinking of taking it on are looking at a more complex (they would say nuanced ) system but I really liked your system so wanted to give it a shout out

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:45 am

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:16 am I appreciate Pete has said he doesn't want a copy and paste successor to the DL (though it is hardly a copyright issue ) but just adopting the simple and uncomplicated existing system of scoring would seem reasonable wouldn't it ?

The reason that I asked whoever comes next not to "pillage wholesale" from the FOG2DL is because the ruleset that I have developed over 7/8 years was already substantially nicked for the WTC without even the courtesy of asking me if I minded. The FOG2DL ratings were similarly used without any prior mention to myself or Anders (hidde). This was extremely rude. I am about 99% certain at the moment that there will not be another FOG2DL season or KO Tournament but, who knows, I might decide to do one more once all the DLC's are out. But, for all intents and purposes, the FOG2DL is now closed. I think I am entitled to that 1% of ambiguity.

If you look at Eric's totally misplaced contribution in the "Farewell" thread, he writes that I was merely "looking after the tournament" and that it "should not end". I find this a bit rich, to be honest. The FOGDL evolved over 16 seasons actually, 4 for the FOG1DL, which ended 5 or 6 years ago, and then 12 for the FOG2DL over the past 4 years. I wasn't looking after the FOGDL, I made the FOGDL (along with important organising contributions from other players, including Turk1964, voskarp, hidde and ianiow, without which it probably would not have survived), although of course, some of the ideas included in the ruleset built on pantherboy's excellent League of Extraordinary Gentlemen's series of tournaments. The less said about the heroically-named Temporary League the better.

Having said all this, I am not saying that new organisers cannot take elements from the FOG2DL ruleset, including the scoring system, and adapt them for their own. Write them in your own words, don't just copy and paste the FOG2DL ruleset. Similarly, new organisers may use the final player ratings (being worked on by Anders at the moment) to help set up their new divisions. But then start new ratings of your own when the first season of the new tournament is completed. Please do not carry on using the FOG2DL ratings system because I am saying that they have finished at the end of Season 12.

I don't think any of this is unreasonable and good luck with whatever comes next. I have already read some very refreshing new ideas from tyronec and you have players like kronenblatt and Karvon who have shown they have what it takes to consistently run high quality campaigns and tournaments. Please have some imagination. Go beyond the FOG2DL, don't just reproduce it. Its format is worn out. Make something better.

devoncop wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:32 am All I was getting at was where you said you didn't want mechanics you had developed being adopted as a "cut and paste" into the new League. I just saw such a move as a nice legacy in the context of the scoring system.

The Rugby bonus point system (County cricket in the UK has the same) has some merit but I just think it is added complexity...maybe I am just a bit slow

ericdoman1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:48 am Many apologies then Pete but I thought I had asked you, it was way back at the end of July and you hadn't mentioned anything until now so I suspect I had asked and you agreed. Private messages from that time are deleted for me so I have no way of knowing. I had customized about 30% of the rules, keeping the majority that would be familiar to most players. Likewise with reference to the ratings, I can remember mentioning it to you and that I had put together a very basic Slitherine tournament rating as well, which I believe I had suggested you could use for your league. I noticed you hadn't mentioned that I ran one season of the LOEG and co-run the next one. I even found a possible provisional set of LOEG rules, that I may have helped create that has a few similarities to the FOG II DL rules. I also think it would have been a good idea to inform the FOG II community that you were going to end FOG II DL, a few weeks ago. It was a major surprise. Furthermore your comment he writes that I was merely "Thanks very much for looking after the tournament" and that it "Yes it has been the heart and soul of the FOG Gaming Community and should not end", you should have added everything I posted (in bold). I also feel that anything used within the FOG II Community should be shared, that is the idea of a community

rexhurley wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:57 pm My 2 cents...you copied a lot of the Digi League from Panths excellent LOEG as you rightly acknowledge but why be so precious this has beena group effort with lots of surveys etc to get players buy in then a lot of rules were adopted from that. You did NOT originate it NOR any of the core fundamentals plus you DONOT own a copyright so stop ranting that no one can use what is in a public forum. You chose to be the cretaker and did a wonderful job, or in some our opinions you were rather onerous but overall you kept it running out of passion nothing else so you have no ownership what happens in the future as you have chosen to step down.

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 12:15 pm

ericdoman1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:48 am Many apologies then Pete but I thought I had asked you, it was way back at the end of July and you hadn't mentioned anything until now so I suspect I had asked and you agreed. Private messages from that time are deleted for me so I have no way of knowing. I had customized about 30% of the rules, keeping the majority that would be familiar to most players. Likewise with reference to the ratings, I can remember mentioning it to you and that I had put together a very basic Slitherine tournament rating as well, which I believe I had suggested you could use for your league. I noticed you hadn't mentioned that I ran one season of the LOEG and co-run the next one. I even found a possible provisional set of LOEG rules, that I may have helped create that has a few similarities to the FOG II DL rules. I also think it would have been a good idea to inform the FOG II community that you were going to end FOG II DL, a few weeks ago. It was a major surprise. Furthermore your comment he writes that I was merely "Thanks very much for looking after the tournament" and that it "Yes it has been the heart and soul of the FOG Gaming Community and should not end", you should have added everything I posted (in bold). I also feel that anything used within the FOG II Community should be shared, that is the idea of a community

You banned me? Moi? And I am still banned, am I? (Eric has deleted that bit now) I cannot remember any of this apart from there being a big tear up at one point. And you remember every detail? Oh bless. You have obviously taken it very personally. I shouldn't have let you enter the FOG2DL then. I do love to reciprocate.

No, I definitely do not remember you asking for permission to use the FOG2DL rules or ratings for the WTC, although obviously you can read them on the forum and adapt them to suit your own purposes just like anyone else. My memory does still go back as far as July I am (fairly) certain. I do remember talking to XLegione and sending him a link for the old FOG1 Companions Cup, which I think he found was very helpful.

No, it would not have been a good idea to tell people the FOG2DL was ending a few weeks ago. First of all, I have only decided in the last week or so that I am going to stop. It is a full week's work to wrap a tournament up (25 hours+ even after it has finished) and about 2 weeks work to get it started all over again and I have run out of gas. Secondly, to prematurely tell players it was ending ran the risk of increasing the number of players going AWOL, or not completing matches, to the detriment of players who wanted to finish properly. So I decided to wait for the end of the season to make the announcement.

I am not against sharing, Eric. It is just thieving that I object to.

The 5 periods I have suggested are:-

Classical 700 to 25 BC
Imperial and Early Dark Ages 25 BC to 600 AD
Dark Ages 600 AD to 1000 AD
Early Medieval (no heavy armoured troops) 1000 to 1200 AD
Later Medieval 1200 to 1500 AD

The idea here is not to include a post showing all of the armies allowed but to indicate that all armies and allies can be used within the time period so a slight difference to the DL. A player cannot use the same army twice though. I wanted to include the "Biblical" armies and another suggestion is to include the armies from the Silk Road Modules?

I have thought of 1600, 1600, 1400, 1200 and 1200 point armies respectively. 40W x 32H, 40W x 32H, 36W x 32H, 32W x 32H maps respectively. All - 24 turns, open battles and pot luck terrain. Even toying with 1600, 1500, 1400, 1300, 1200 points respectively 40x32, 38x32, 36x32 34x32 and 32x32 maps. Trying to keep it simple for the first season. 10 players a division, hopefully 3 divisions per period, top 2 are promoted, bottom 2 are relegated or 8 players a division, 1 or 2 promoted and relegated.

Themed event, maybe use some of the Slitherine tournament games, making all X Agricultural. I haven't looked at creating scenarios yet, heck I started creating FOG I scenarios abut 9 years after I had started. I have created a number of FOG I campaigns and converted them into FOG II so possibly the armies included in these historical campaigns may be used in a themed event. Stew101 had come up with a few ideas as well. I do like the mirror match concept now. Not very keen on it in the past.

Although I am thinking of giving it a miss for season 1 and see if players can come forward over the next few months with new scenarios?

There are a few possibilities but I would like it simple at the beginning and see what happens.

I have opened a new topic of discussion viewtopic.php?f=494&t=107866 this is for army points, map sizes and how many players in divisions.

I have also received this pm form RBS

Hi Eric,

Pete had been planning to start the next FOG2DL season on 1st February, so we are scheduled to release an Ancients update before then. (Between 12th and 27th January)

The next Medieval update will be with the release of the Storm of arrows DLC on 10th February. Unfortunately that will be mid-season, but that cannot be helped.

Cheers,

Richard

ericdoman1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pm So why bring it up now, it was 4 and a half months ago to me that justifies I had asked. Originally the WTC was XLegione, Triarii and I, they too had helped with amending the rules. If you look at a pm I sent you I had included the posts about the incident. It was quite by chance I found them, as I had been looking for rules used in LOEG, of which I found one.

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:44 pm

ericdoman1 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:09 pm So why bring it up now, it was 4 and a half months ago to me that justifies I had asked. Originally the WTC was XLegione, Triarii and I, they too had helped with amending the rules. If you look at a pm I sent you I had included the posts about the incident. It was quite by chance I found them, as I had been looking for rules used in LOEG, of which I found one.

You did not ask. Please don't lie. We didn't bring it up with you at the time as you had already taken the FOG2DL rules and put them on the forum. And we didn't want to spoil the launch of your new tournament either. So we let it go. I wouldn't have said anything even now either, except for your intervention in the "Farewell" thread where you proclaimed that the FOG2DL was not ending and then you started canvassing for new ideas! A cardboard box would have realised that was completely inappropriate.

Actually, originally the WTC was me being bombarded with requests to be the organiser for it, and then an organiser for it, but . . . hello . . . I was already running the FOG2DL. At some point I sent a PM to XLegione with a link for the old Companions Cup, which seemed to me to be very similar in concept to what you were discussing for the WTC. I was supportive from the outset, but could not spare any more time to help organise it. So let's not write that out of the story, shall we?

XLegione
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World team Championship (WTC)
Post by XLegione » 07 Jun 2021 20:40

Dear gamers this post to announce a special event planned for September 2021, World Team Championship (WTC).
Below you find the content and how will be organised the event.

Teams from across the world will take part
UK and possibly Americas will be represented by two or three teams due to the high presence of players

From 2 to 4 qualification groups
Groups of of 4 teams playing each other in a single round-robin system
The first 2 teams for each group proceed to the knock-out phase that culminates in the final match

In case of a high subscription of players, a second and third from each nation may be admitted
8 to 16 national teams participate
each team is composed by 4 players + 1 or 2 reserves
each player is assigned to a specific period
Biblical, Classical, Early Middle Ages, Medieval

Possibility for the players to choose their army from the list for each period
Players from different teams can play with the same army

WTC will use the Digital League rules and scoring
WTC is getting the approval from Slitherine

Estimated start date of the WTC will be September 2021