Slitherine

captainjack wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:29 pm Changes I made that made AT in general a lot more attractive without breaking game balance were +2 initiative across the board, and adding a switch to overwatch mode.
The ini increase was because even experienced heavy AT was firing second when defending, which seemed counter to pretty much every theory and personal report I'd read.
The overwatch mode is a switch to artillery type while retaining the AT unit combat stats but with move 1 and ROF 80%. So the AT unit now sits next to or behind the front line watching for (armoured) trouble and firing in support. Suddenly Marders and Nashorn become useful, especially against medium tanks, even though you lose the +2HA/" experience bonus. They are also useful for softening up bunkers and for removing entrenchment, which is reasonably historical.
Early use is encouraged by giving 37mm pak and the French 25mm 2 move as they were very mobile compared with other AT guns (very annoying when you forget and get jumped by onr) and allowing portees to switch to dismounted AT but with slightly boosted defence stats (based on reports of NZ AT units in the desert where they dismounted and dug in where possible, but fought mounted where circumstances and ground were against them).
In a perfect world, I'd want to see towed AT entreching as fast as infantry, since entrenchment rates are hard coded, +1 or +1.5 def/" would be a good second. When
I've tried adapting the experience table, I unfortunately ended up with 0/* experience bonus for some reason so tried alternative options.
And finally (it was going to be a short post...). I added SE AT units for germany - currently exluding the stugs which were already useful. I might give US SE AT units next time I play.

captainjack wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 11:06 pm Lennis29
Thanks for the comments. I'll pm the equipment file later today when I'm next at my computer

captainjack wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:29 pm Changes I made that made AT in general a lot more attractive without breaking game balance were +2 initiative across the board, and adding a switch to overwatch mode.
The ini increase was because even experienced heavy AT was firing second when defending, which seemed counter to pretty much every theory and personal report I'd read.
The overwatch mode is a switch to artillery type while retaining the AT unit combat stats but with move 1 and ROF 80%. So the AT unit now sits next to or behind the front line watching for (armoured) trouble and firing in support. Suddenly Marders and Nashorn become useful, especially against medium tanks, even though you lose the +2HA/" experience bonus. They are also useful for softening up bunkers and for removing entrenchment, which is reasonably historical.
Early use is encouraged by giving 37mm pak and the French 25mm 2 move as they were very mobile compared with other AT guns (very annoying when you forget and get jumped by onr) and allowing portees to switch to dismounted AT but with slightly boosted defence stats (based on reports of NZ AT units in the desert where they dismounted and dug in where possible, but fought mounted where circumstances and ground were against them).
In a perfect world, I'd want to see towed AT entreching as fast as infantry, since entrenchment rates are hard coded, +1 or +1.5 def/" would be a good second. When
I've tried adapting the experience table, I unfortunately ended up with 0/* experience bonus for some reason so tried alternative options.
And finally (it was going to be a short post...). I added SE AT units for germany - currently exluding the stugs which were already useful. I might give US SE AT units next time I play.

guille1434 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 2:49 am

captainjack wrote: ↑Wed Jan 06, 2021 7:29 pm Changes I made that made AT in general a lot more attractive without breaking game balance were +2 initiative across the board, and adding a switch to overwatch mode.
The ini increase was because even experienced heavy AT was firing second when defending, which seemed counter to pretty much every theory and personal report I'd read.
The overwatch mode is a switch to artillery type while retaining the AT unit combat stats but with move 1 and ROF 80%. So the AT unit now sits next to or behind the front line watching for (armoured) trouble and firing in support. Suddenly Marders and Nashorn become useful, especially against medium tanks, even though you lose the +2HA/" experience bonus. They are also useful for softening up bunkers and for removing entrenchment, which is reasonably historical.
Early use is encouraged by giving 37mm pak and the French 25mm 2 move as they were very mobile compared with other AT guns (very annoying when you forget and get jumped by onr) and allowing portees to switch to dismounted AT but with slightly boosted defence stats (based on reports of NZ AT units in the desert where they dismounted and dug in where possible, but fought mounted where circumstances and ground were against them).
In a perfect world, I'd want to see towed AT entreching as fast as infantry, since entrenchment rates are hard coded, +1 or +1.5 def/" would be a good second. When
I've tried adapting the experience table, I unfortunately ended up with 0/* experience bonus for some reason so tried alternative options.
And finally (it was going to be a short post...). I added SE AT units for germany - currently exluding the stugs which were already useful. I might give US SE AT units next time I play.

Hello Captainjack, I agree with cw58.... Those are very interesting ideas. About them, I would like to ask you some questions...

1 - Do you give range = 1 to AT units when switched to "overwatch mode" (I think so).
2 - Also, I suppose you give then a Soft Attack value equal to 0 (to make the unit to provide support fire only when armored enemy units make an attack). Is this correct?

As I aready gave self-propelled AT units an ""ambush" switch (with move =1, higher initiative, and better defense) I am thinking to add this useful switch also, making those kind of units triple switch units... but only to long range, big caliber armed vehicles (75 mm guns and up), because I think that lesser caliber gunned vehicles (37, 47, 50 mm) lack enough punch at long range to be able to function in such way.

The same goes, in my opinion, for towed guns. I would give the "overwatch" switch only to guns of 75 mm caliber and higher.
By the way, I already am experimenting with a third switch for lighter towed AT units (units with a max weight of about 500/600 kg):
1) The "normal", vanilla switch,
2) A "move" switch with movement=2 but with just passive and reduced attack values (they will fire only in self defense). I always disliked the idea of artillery men pushing their guns while chasing and firing on motorized vehicles... This would just function as a deployment mode.
3) The already described "ambush mode", like the Sp AT with better initiative and defense values, plus the addition of the camo trait, because the small size of light towed AT Guns mke the easy to conceal from enemy observation.

Thanks!

lennis29 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:18 pm We are going to modify a file, together, something similar to what Deducter did.

Yrfin wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:41 pm

lennis29 wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 6:18 pm We are going to modify a file, together, something similar to what Deducter did.

Agreed.
But like a McGuba said: "Every player have your own Equipment file..."

captainjack wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:02 pm lennis29 I've emailed a recent version of my equipment file (as I couldn't work out how to attach the file in a general reply.

I've used Range 1 for all overwatch mode AT.
I was originally going to apply overwatch only for heavier AT guns, but I realised that to make the towed and lightly armoured AT guns useful they should be able to provide supporting fire for neighbouring units. Also AT guns were used for general fire support or for bunker busting so being able to artillery type shots seemed reasonable. There might be a case for allowing the heavy guns a true overwatch type role but it got too hard and what I've done seems to work OK.
As for soft attack 0, I'd disagree. AT guns can shoot up trucks and scare off other soft targets (NZ AT reports include use of 2 pounder solid shot to drive off mortar teams). Also many AT guns were issued with a few HE or canister rounds for soft targets, even without allowing for the rifle or MG teams for defence against infantry.

captainjack wrote: ↑Thu Jan 07, 2021 9:02 pm lennis29 I've emailed a recent version of my equipment file (as I couldn't work out how to attach the file in a general reply.

I've used Range 1 for all overwatch mode AT.
I was originally going to apply overwatch only for heavier AT guns, but I realised that to make the towed and lightly armoured AT guns useful they should be able to provide supporting fire for neighbouring units. Also AT guns were used for general fire support or for bunker busting so being able to artillery type shots seemed reasonable. There might be a case for allowing the heavy guns a true overwatch type role but it got too hard and what I've done seems to work OK.
As for soft attack 0, I'd disagree. AT guns can shoot up trucks and scare off other soft targets (NZ AT reports include use of 2 pounder solid shot to drive off mortar teams). Also many AT guns were issued with a few HE or canister rounds for soft targets, even without allowing for the rifle or MG teams for defence against infantry.

captainjack wrote: ↑Fri Jan 08, 2021 12:33 am Thanks lennis29 for the advice on the file - I was sure it was possible, but couldn't work it out.
I think that SSgtpg had Stugs with range 1, so a range hero was very useful, though also overpowered.
It's not so bad with switchable units as you only get range hero in the version with range >0 (eg 88 in AT mode gets initiative, but if in AA mode gets range, and range hero 88AA doesn't keep the +1range when it switches to AT mode). A 2 range Nashorn is nice but not too destructive.