Slitherine

Since you were winning you didn't need a second line

doesn't mean I shouldn't have had one. Obviously I knew I was going to win.

According to the following threads (and many others), the existing rear support rule appears to be providing for tactical reserves quite adequately:

viewtopic.php?t=6832 (#211, #227, #240, #705, etc.)
viewtopic.php?t=6844
viewtopic.php?t=9079
viewtopic.php?t=9131
viewtopic.php?t=9388
viewtopic.php?t=9788
viewtopic.php?t=10100

Cheers,
Scott

philqw78 wrote:

Since you were winning you didn't need a second line.

But despite what has been said above about only complex armies using them, most did.
The crusaders used their, what is in FoG, Def Sp
The Mongols held their close formed cav back
The English their retainers and squires
the Anglo Saxons, Danes, etc their poorer close formed troops.
Where as in foG these are mostly given a front line role to extend the line. They can't 'support' the better front line troops

FoG has been designed so all combats resolve in 3-4 turns max. Combined with the move distances, this means using "a" reserve isn't really viable, as by the time you start seeing things go wrong and start moving, the combats have probably finished going wrong.

Also the combat mechanism means there is relatively little benefit to "helping" a failing combat - its almost always better to try and get over 3" away from your units that are losing rather than trying to join them in the battle line.

Having been involved in the Chalons game (abeit briefly ), I felt that for similar scenario games a "super" march move (3-4x normal) of some sort would be needed to allow reserves / flanking forces to move fast enough across the table to allow them to make some impact.

Also/alternatively a mechanic to make (some) combats (ie infantry slogs) go on longer would have been useful as well - possibly allowing generals to bolster units in the same turn they dropped, or maybe allowing generals to influence a whole battle line in combat, not just one unit.

madaxeman wrote:
Having been involved in the Chalons game (abeit briefly ), I felt that for similar scenario games a "super" march move (3-4x normal) of some sort would be needed to allow reserves / flanking forces to move fast enough across the table to allow them to make some impact.

You should have stayed for the victory celebrations. Granted you'd have been comatose from alcohol consumption by the end, but even some your BGs were rallying back at the end.

You are right about the reserves on that scale they just would take a really long time to matter. Now Hammy's resployment of 3 BGs from his sector eventually did matter, but they were out of action for a long time.

Big participation games have a real problem if you have a whole player in reserve. So you would need the reserve to join an existing player I think.

Having been involved in the Chalons game (abeit briefly ), I felt that for similar scenario games a "super" march move (3-4x normal) of some sort would be needed to allow reserves / flanking forces to move fast enough across the table to allow them to make some impact.

Also/alternatively a mechanic to make (some) combats (ie infantry slogs) go on longer would have been useful as well - possibly allowing generals to bolster units in the same turn they dropped, or maybe allowing generals to influence a whole battle line in combat, not just one unit.

One of my thoughts for next years game as well Tim. Ouside 12 of enemy say. However I think we need 6ft deep table throguhout which gets a bit of a stretch. 25mm game next year too i hope. I will be writing Chalons up next week bvy the way and will post a short version here on the forum.

In general we have desinged the rules to make reserves and breakthroughs useful but in the main to rewolve a single stage battle as this is more sensible for your typcial evenings game or comp game. I find breahthroughs are fine in the rules as long as you brekthrough with Cavalry and havea general with them.

Ray can I am sure agree after my lancers broke through the enemy line broke of from pursuits and 2 bounds later I have a lancer BG charging the rear of two pike blocks with charges to front too - and they both fiaeld to form ORB too!!

What you cannot do easily in 3.5 hours is bring a slower foot cmmand back from a breakthrough but then how often was this the case anyway?

As for a true second line its one for big refights really. At the Chalons game a reserve would have helped both side out had the general decided to have one (IMHO) as it could have moved to deal with borken flanks that eventually took their toll!!

And yes Tim you elft to early - Phil had two BGs opf your comman rallied and back fighting by the end. I did joke that only you were allowed to move them, but they were all for calling you and insisting you came back!!

Si