Slitherine

bondjamesbond wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:13 pm

Imeror wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 8:07 pm Some attack helicopters can carry anti-air missiles but I think it was never used in any real operation ; and it's anyway far from it's original role. AA missiles for helicopters are usually like a pistol for an infantryman : it's just a backup, he is supposed to use his rifle instead
Just keep a fighter around to protect it from ennemy fighters, that's enough

Cobra could use aim-9 ; ka-52 igla ; tiger stingers or mistral ; and I think that's it.

Well let's summarise, what we have in the end is naturally this limitation of the game engine and game conventions + balance ) We have for example a squad of grenade launchers which in reality successfully fight with enemy armoured vehicles but for some reason there is no squad with MANPADS that would at least somehow calm down the attack aircraft if we were not given air defence ))) You can read about how a couple of times helicopters were able to shoot down even jet planes in the descriptions of the Iran-Iraq war, and Iranians and Iraqis often fought with helicopters against each other.)

https://samlib.ru/img/c/chekmarew_w_a/1 ... ndex.shtml
https://rg.ru/2019/10/27/vertolet-proti ... j-f-4.html
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/201510170938-qw7z.htm

I didnt' knew if AA missiles were used by attack helicopters in combat situation
I'm more about "boots on the ground" ; I don't know well all of the flying circus up there

I also think that manpads should be included in the MC program, and of course I'm not as much of a master as Akkula, but I did try my hand at a Manpad Strela-2. I gave it the ability “camo” in the device file, which was a real surprise when they appeared. You can only see them if you stand right next to them.

Imeror wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:54 pm

bondjamesbond wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 9:13 pm

Imeror wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 8:07 pm Some attack helicopters can carry anti-air missiles but I think it was never used in any real operation ; and it's anyway far from it's original role. AA missiles for helicopters are usually like a pistol for an infantryman : it's just a backup, he is supposed to use his rifle instead
Just keep a fighter around to protect it from ennemy fighters, that's enough

Cobra could use aim-9 ; ka-52 igla ; tiger stingers or mistral ; and I think that's it.

Well let's summarise, what we have in the end is naturally this limitation of the game engine and game conventions + balance ) We have for example a squad of grenade launchers which in reality successfully fight with enemy armoured vehicles but for some reason there is no squad with MANPADS that would at least somehow calm down the attack aircraft if we were not given air defence ))) You can read about how a couple of times helicopters were able to shoot down even jet planes in the descriptions of the Iran-Iraq war, and Iranians and Iraqis often fought with helicopters against each other.)

https://samlib.ru/img/c/chekmarew_w_a/1 ... ndex.shtml
https://rg.ru/2019/10/27/vertolet-proti ... j-f-4.html
https://tvzvezda.ru/news/201510170938-qw7z.htm

I didnt' knew if AA missiles were used by attack helicopters in combat situation
I'm more about "boots on the ground" ; I don't know well all of the flying circus up there

Yes sometimes they have air-to-air missiles too )))) That reminds me of an old Soviet joke ))))
"Gaddafi: ‘Dear Leonid Ilyich!
On behalf of the people and leadership of Libya, I would like to thank you for the delivery of surface-to-air missiles for the needs of our army. Could you next time also supply us with surface-to-air missiles (land - aeroplanes )!?’
https://artofwar.ru/p/ponamarchuk_e/text_0490.shtml

Tobi72 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 10:03 pm I also think that manpads should be included in the MC program, and of course I'm not as much of a master as Akkula, but I did try my hand at a Manpad Strela-2. I gave it the ability “camo” in the device file, which was a real surprise when they appeared. You can only see them if you stand right next to them.MPD.png

Toby you're not only like Tom Clancy but you're already like the eldest son of Accula ) I like your anti-aircraft gunners with the portable anti-aircraft gun )

That would be indeed a very nice addition ; and the camo ability perfectly represent the surprise threat that they could pose to an unexpected attacker aircraft.

You had a couter-insurgency scenario in mind when you designed them, isn't it ?

Well, I don't want to give too much away, it's going to be a campaign that I've been thinking about for a while.

Sorry for interfering, I'm off again, I have a lot to do.

I appreciate to see what people are doing and what we may have in the future. This image already tell a lot, but let's say I have forgotten what I saw

Imeror wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 10:22 pm I appreciate to see what people are doing and what we may have in the future. This image already tell a lot, but let's say I have forgotten what I saw

Cheer up my friend when you send your armada of attack helicopters to chase the igil across the desert, reveling in the fact that the savages have nothing to shoot you down, you're in for a surprise ))))

https://en.topwar.ru/148040-ruchnye-kom ... inger.html
I read the memoirs of retired legionnaires and one of them recalled how at a checkpoint they didn't have grenade launchers and they were attacked by someone there, but they had MANPADS, so they did little damage to armour )))))

Tobi72 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 04, 2025 10:03 pm I also think that manpads should be included in the MC program, and of course I'm not as much of a master as Akkula, but I did try my hand at a Manpad Strela-2. I gave it the ability “camo” in the device file, which was a real surprise when they appeared. You can only see them if you stand right next to them.

Lovely unit model!

Though personally I do not think we need dedicated AA infantry unit in MdC. May be worth adding minimal passive AA value to boots on the grounds instead - [1]..[2] will be more than enough. They will be threat to light attack helos, but less so for attack planes and dedicated attack copters. Other than that, mobile and long-range AA do job just fine, imo.

BUT! I absolutely love the idea of camo trait for some (light) AA units. ZU-23-2 for example. It's fairly weak in AA role, but with element of surprise on its side... this can be fun at times.

I agree with you, these units should not have too big a role ....But...there are numerous photos and videos that prove that this unit has its usefulness. (Think of the Stinger in the hands of the Afghan Mujahideen)
In any case, this unit brought a certain fun factor to the game, I simply could not locate them with helicopters and airplanes and had to send infantry into mountain terrain to track them down, resulting in casualties as enemy infantry fought my troops in the mountains. etc etc.

It is best to set the unit to “Hold position, active” when setting it up. As soon as it senses a target, it moves towards it and changes position.

Estherr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 2:53 pm
Though personally I do not think we need dedicated AA infantry unit in MdC. May be worth adding minimal passive AA value to boots on the grounds instead - [1]..[2] will be more than enough. They will be threat to light attack helos, but less so for attack planes and dedicated attack copters. Other than that, mobile and long-range AA do job just fine, imo.

I don't think a passive AA value for infantry would be a good idea: it would prevent an adjacent vehicle dedicated to anti-air from covering said unit. Firing a stinger with a very low attack value while a Patriot battery is nearby would be a shame

Nearly every army has those weapons, but it would be thematically excellent in an asymmetrical scenario, like Toby's mujahideen army example.

Tobi72 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:07 pm I agree with you, these units should not have too big a role ....But...there are numerous photos and videos that prove that this unit has its usefulness. (Think of the Stinger in the hands of the Afghan Mujahideen)
In any case, this unit brought a certain fun factor to the game, I simply could not locate them with helicopters and airplanes and had to send infantry into mountain terrain to track them down, resulting in casualties as enemy infantry fought my troops in the mountains. etc etc.

I agree with you my friend ))) Deliveries of for example Soviet missiles and other means prevented North Vietnam from being bombed into the stone age )))) Also after 1984 Russians started to suffer losses from Stingers and its analogues )))) There the spirits had not only Stingers but also other countries' Pzrka, the Stinger was simply the easiest to train savages ))))) When the Soviets left before the Nato invasion of Afghanistan, all these remaining Stingers were bought from the local population at a very expensive price ))))) Because a downed Nato aircraft is many millions of dollars thrown away, with the loss of prestige of the country, casualties among pilots and fear of flying over this square at all ))
https://www.rubaltic.ru/context/2102202 ... koy-voyny/
https://zvezdaweekly.ru/news/2020831161-IRXgW.html

Tobi72 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:07 pm I agree with you, these units should not have too big a role ....But...there are numerous photos and videos that prove that this unit has its usefulness. (Think of the Stinger in the hands of the Afghan Mujahideen)
In any case, this unit brought a certain fun factor to the game, I simply could not locate them with helicopters and airplanes and had to send infantry into mountain terrain to track them down, resulting in casualties as enemy infantry fought my troops in the mountains. etc etc.

I meant MdC realm, not MANPAD efficiency as a weapon =) It's like with FPV drones and loitering munitions - they definitely play huge role nowadays, but I totally agree with Akkula it will be way too complicated to implement into PzC engine and MdC level of detail.

But I definitely see your point and it makes sense. Just may it will be too niche unit... but worth a try for sure ^.^

Imeror wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 3:22 pm I don't think a passive AA value for infantry would be a good idea: it would prevent an adjacent vehicle dedicated to anti-air from covering said unit. Firing a stinger with a very low attack value while a Patriot battery is nearby would be a shame

Nearly every army has those weapons, but it would be thematically excellent in an asymmetrical scenario, like Toby's mujahideen army example.

Patriot won't save you from ranged ground attack (Su-34 for example) either - PzC engine have some limits =) But it's a fair point nontheless. Neither adjacent fighter protect helo or bomber against ranged air attack, btw, which is EXTREMELY frustrating.

For assymetrical campaign... yeah, that may work. But don't think it's a good unit for "regular" core, like Akkula's main campaigns. Except for Syria maybe.

Estherr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:04 pm Patriot won't save you from ranged ground attack (Su-34 for example) either - PzC engine have some limits =) But it's a fair point nontheless. Neither adjacent fighter protect helo or bomber against ranged air attack, btw, which is EXTREMELY frustrating.

For assymetrical campaign... yeah, that may work. But don't think it's a good unit for "regular" core, like Akkula's main campaigns. Except for Syria maybe.

Let's say that, as a player, I would be displeased to have my poor passive 1 AA attack be used instead of the massive AA attack of the patriot/S-300 that could be right next to my unit

But indeed, MANPADS don't match the scope of Akkula's campaigns.

Hello guys,
Just some funny info for you: Update 2.0 already has more than 620 new units.... and counting. Most of those, of course, are related to the new Asian nations.
I almost finished the scenario editing of the main campaign... we are almost there

Best regards,
Akkula.

Akkula wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:23 pm Hello guys,
Just some funny info for you: Update 2.0 already has more than 620 new units.... and counting. Most of those, of course, are related to the new Asian nations.
I almost finished the scenario editing of the main campaign... we are almost there

Best regards,
Akkula.

Congratulations for all this work ! The road was long since 1.95, but the finish line seems to be close !

I can't wait to try the new campaign and to add new units to my own scenarios.
When I said that the changelog will take 30 minutes just to be read, it appears it will be really close, in the end

Imeror wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:32 pm Congratulations for all this work ! The road was long since 1.95, but the finish line seems to be close !

I can't wait to try the new campaign and to add new units to my own scenarios.
When I said that the changelog will take 30 minutes just to be read, it appears it will be close, in the end

Actually is not that extensive, but these two lines implies LOTS of work and content:

- New Nations: China, India, North Korea, South Korea, Japan, Taiwan

- New WW3 Campaign: China

There area several balance updates though.

Best regards,
Akkula.

Akkula wrote: ↑Wed Feb 05, 2025 4:23 pm Hello guys,
Just some funny info for you: Update 2.0 already has more than 620 new units.... and counting. Most of those, of course, are related to the new Asian nations.
I almost finished the scenario editing of the main campaign... we are almost there

Best regards,
Akkula.

Gigantic. Bravo.

Indeed, I re-wrote :
read the equipment file


I am particularly happy about India : I knew about China, Koreas, etc... with your screenshots; but I don't remind to have seen any image about India (even it may be my memory that made a mistake), and I had several idea to include them in my own "WWIII plot". I will be able to execute my plan, in the end

A very exciting update!

Hello folks. I guess I have to divide my attention between modeling and MdC