Slitherine

As Intenso82 pointed out correctly, the problem with switchable towed AT guns (where in normal gun mode they have camo but cannot have any kind of transport, and then can be switched to a transport unit for movement with no camo) is that there are quite a few possible variations which should be covered:
AT guns: 3.7cm, 5cm, 7.5cm
Tractors: Krupp-Protze, SdKfz.10, SdKfz.11, Opel Blitz, RSO, Maultier, Horse Transport.
If I combine these there would be 10-12 possible outcomes, even if not all guns can use all tractors. But, because of the necessary in-family upgrade option there would be even more necessary combinations: e.g. 3.7cm + SdKfz10 -> 5cm + SdKfz.10 same upgrade family for gun, no upgrade needed for the tractor, so far so good, but then -> 7.5cm + SdKfz.11, Blitz, RSO, Maultier or maybe Horse Transport - same upgrade family for the gun, but needs a new tractor due to the increased weight of the gun, and then I need to do the same for the 3.7cm + Krupp-Protze line, which would be quite confusing in the end, unless I forget about upgrade family. But the whole point of this was to try make towed AT guns more cost effective, which necessitated the in family upgrade option.
And that is only for Germany. And then comes the question how the AI would deal with it. Therefore for now, I will only go for towed AT guns with camo, but no switch, and no capture flag ability. This looks like the simplest option and both sides would have the same benefits, be it a human-AI or a human-human game.

wargovichr wrote:Please list clear specific INSTALLATION instructions.

There is a step-by-step install guide for both methods (with or without GME) in the readme.doc file, which comes with the mod, since v1.0.

Hello, I am waiting with thrill for a new version BGE, especially for multiplayer... And. Great work Mr. McGuba, did they privately ask you with help or ideas for PzC2?

Edit underlined

Changes in v1.9

- The invasion of Denmark and Norway in 1940 is added as an extra (small scale) scenario, just before the invasion of France
- The big scenario now comes with three difficulty levels: "realistic" (the normal difficulty level of the previous versions), "medium" (one third of the Allied reinforcements are removed) and "easy" (two thirds of the Allied reinforcements are removed) - "realistic" is intended for highly skilled and experienced players, "medium" is for average/skilled new players and for those veteran players of the mod who failed to achieve anything better than a draw in the previous versions, and "easy" is for casual players and for those veteran players of the mod who failed to achieve even a draw
- A better balanced version of the big sceanario for mulitplayer use (based on the "easy" version of the scenario)
- Order of battle is further revised, with more accurate unit types and numbers for both sides
- Most units move slower on soft (snowy and muddy) terrain
- "Wide tracked" movement added: units with this movement type can move faster on soft terrain due to their wider tracks which results in lower ground pressure per square inch (e.g. T-34, KV-1, Tiger, Panther, Churchill and their derivatives)
- "Desert tracked" movement added: tracked units have to be "tropicalized" (with improved air filters and cooling installed) i.e. upgraded to a similar unit with different movement type for free for optimal movement on desert and dunes terrain, however, these are comparably slower on clear and countryside terrain (units with "wide tracked" movement are not affected as they already have better mobility on soft terrain)
- Increased road movement speed: units with tracked, wide tracked, desert tracked, leg and halftrack movement can now move 20-40% faster on dry roads (effective use of the road network is now more important)
- Camo trait added to towed AT guns (up to 75 mm), towed AT guns cannot capture cities and cannot get air transport
- The capture of Stalingrad now provides a prestige reward and can reduce the number of Soviet reinforcements (as long as the city is held by the Axis)
- Allied bombing raids against German cities cost two times more prestige penalty (neglecting the air defense of the Reich has more serious consequencies)
- The "living battlefield" concept is further improved: cities will get visibly damaged or destroyed as a result of the horrors of war - and even a volcano will erupt at some point!
- Map is slightly improved at certain key areas (more precise geographically)
- Several new or modified units are added to both sides
- Some more German wonder weapons are added, especially to players on the losing side and towards the end of the war
- Light AA guns are a bit more effective against ground targets
- Heavy artillery has a bit higher ground defense and rate of fire
- Units equipped only with light machine guns (like Panzer I or early Hurricane or Spitfire) can no longer attack hard (armoured) targets
- Some obsolete and out of production units got the "noreplace" trait (some of these can be upgraded though, to a newer type)
- Lots of other small (or bigger) fixes and changes

.......

Basically I was pleased with v1.8, so originally it only started as a pure graphical update: I added historical camo for both sides for the African theatre (following Uhu's idea), but I also wanted to give it a meaningful function so I added a new unit movement type for these for desert use...



...but then I had to add the historical British olive green camo for Eurpean use as well, and of course I added some other new units like the full set of submerged submarines...



...and then I had to revise the Italian units, too, again with both Eurpean and African versions...



...and by then, since the snowball was moving on, I just made some map changes and made sure that several cities can get destroyed over time as a result of war so that the title of the mod finally gets a real meaning...



...and then added the invasion of Denmark and Norway, as it was requested by many earlier...



...and then of course made many other changes, like revised the OOB and added more heroes so for example JG 52 is now a real killer unit, having the three most successful fighter aces of history, Gerhard Barkhorn, Günther Rall and Erich Hartmann - these three pilots claimed 928(!) enemy aircraft destroyed in ww2...



...and added two downgraded versions of the mod, "easy" also being the basis of a multiplayer compatible version (which is still in alpha, needs to be tested and fine tuned). In the multiplayer version the Allies still outnumber the Axis about roughly 3:1 over the whole course of the war, but in the first 1-2 years the difference is not so high, and if the Axis player manage to capture several key objectives (e.g. England, Moscow, Malta, oil fields, etc.) than the Allied player will have a hard time to achieve a victory. Or at least that's the theory...



.........

Download Battlefield: Europe v1.9 from here:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2vov5bqdzb9p ... 9.zip?dl=0

Panzer Corps v1.31 is also recommended, as "in this version the AI should return its planes to airfields correctly when they run out of ammo":
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 89#p649287

McGuba wrote:Changes in v1.9

Excellent work!

McGuba wrote:- The "living battlefield" concept is further improved: cities will get visibly damaged or destroyed as a result of the horrors of war - and even a volcano will erupt at some point!

And how is this realized?
I imagine this as a trigger for the change tiles after the bombing of the allied aviation of German cities.

McGuba wrote:and of course I added some other new units like the full set of submerged submarines...

The submarines look great.

McGuba wrote:...and added two downgraded versions of the mod, "easy" also being the basis of a multiplayer compatible version (which is still in alpha, needs to be tested and fine tuned).

I would be interested in playing and testing the multiplayer BE 1.9.

O M G !!!!!!!!!

Can't wait to try it with this new update.

Thanks for all your work.

Intenso82 wrote:

McGuba wrote:- The "living battlefield" concept is further improved: cities will get visibly damaged or destroyed as a result of the horrors of war - and even a volcano will erupt at some point!

And how is this realized?
I imagine this as a trigger for the change tiles after the bombing of the allied aviation of German cities.

Basically yes, but it depends on the city. Obviously due to the lack of AI zones, all German objective cities have the same AI zone and if an Allied strategic bomber successfully attacks at least one of them, a city gets ruined on a (semi) random basis. What do I mean by that? At first only those cities can get destroyed which are closer to England as there is a higher chance that they can be successfully attacked (as a result of the intially limited range of the escort fighters and the selection of the targets). It is also in accordance with the historical facts. However, by the end of the war even Berlin can get leveled if the Allies can make enough successful raids:




Other cities in the east, like Krivoy Rog or Kharkov, which again do not have their own AI zone, have a custom named infantry unit in them, which cannot move away, and if that unit disappears (gets killed) the city gets destroyed, too.

Other cities which have their own AI zone, like Leningrad or Moscow will get destroyed if the Allied flags in that zone goes down to zero.

And then there are other examples, like Warsaw, Malta, London, etc. with all different triggers.

The submarines look great.

Thanks, I took some screenshots from good old Silent Hunter III, so they are quite precise as well.

I would be interested in playing and testing the multiplayer BE 1.9.

Yes, me too, if you are up to the challenge
Send me a PM and then we can possibly try to organize it somehow.

V 1.9 downloaded and enabled via GME,
and there is no Denmark-Norway scenario, and difficulty setting as I can see on your screenshot. Did I miss anything?

Thanks

The Norway scenario cannot be started on its own from the Start Scenario screen. It only comes as a "bonus" scenario after finishing the first Poland scenario of the campaign with a Decisive Victory. It is a rather small scenario compared to the others, not a big deal really, as I keep the same unit scale throughout the mod. In the invasion of Norway there were only like 7 German divisions - as a comparison, in the invasion of Poland there were over 60.

The difficulty setting only applies for the main "Barbarossa" scenario. It can be chosen either after finishing the previous "Mediterranean" scenario in campaign mode, or in the Start Scenario screen like this:

Thank you very much for reply,
I did that way, and as usual, my own confusion

Have a nice evening

PS: Have to play now and as usual edit is underlined....

And,

I would like to see AAR from multiplayer testing between you as mod author and Intenso82, and I think, I am not alone...

Hello McGuba!

First of all, I wanted to thank you for this new version of this great mod!
And in second place, as I am now interested in "reseraching""about movement types, I would like to ask you something:
You already gave explanation about "Wide Tracked" and "Desert Tracked" movement types, which are very well implemented and explained in an earlier post here, but I also see there is an additional tracked type movement in the file tables, called "tracked2"... What is this for?

Thanks again!!

You already gave explanation about "Wide Tracked" and "Desert Tracked" movement types, which are very well implemented and explained in an earlier post here, but I also see there is an additional tracked type movement in the file tables, called "tracked2"... What is this for?

Ah, yeah, I somehow forgot about this. Basically, I wanted to add a new movement type to the Panzer IID/E derivatives (Flammpanzer and Marder IID). The original Panzer IID was a very promising desing with Christie-suspension that provided higher road speed than the earlier Panzer II models (55km/h as opposed to 40), but in Poland its poor off road performace was realised. So the existing models were converted to Flammpanzer IIs and later Marder IID. Thus I wanted to have a movement type for these which provides better road speed, but worse off-road speed than comparable tank models. I just forgot to give a specific name to this movement type.

By the way, I do not know what would be a good name for it: "Christie tracked", "Road tracked", "Slack tracked" or maybe "Wheeled-tracked"? Dunno.

BobStClair wrote:I would like to see AAR from multiplayer testing between you as mod author and Intenso82, and I think, I am not alone...

Well, the thing is, the first few turns did not go very well.
I must admit that there is still a long way to convert this mod to a multiplayer one, if it possible at all. For now we have decided to abandon testing as we found that the numerous AI zones that I added for the human-AI game are not suitable for human-human play as they create a lot of unexpected problems. The mod requires a more elaborate redesign.

Another problem that we ran into is even though I set up a game with "Show opponent moves=ON", after the first turn we do not see the enemy's movements, only the situation after all the moves are made, which is not good.

Is there anyone here with more experience in PzC multiplayer who could explain this issue?

BobStClair wrote:I would like to see AAR from multiplayer testing between you as mod author and Intenso82, and I think, I am not alone...

McGuba wrote:Well, the thing is, the first few turns did not go very well.

I will say that if Mod BE highly addictive.
That multiplayer BE is even more addictive )
I like it.

McGuba wrote:after the first turn we do not see the enemy's movements

I hope this is a single glitch.
And not a bug, a multiplayer on large maps with a lot of units.

McGuba wrote:Changes in v1.9

- The invasion of Denmark and Norway in 1940 is added as an extra (small scale) scenario, just before the invasion of France

Magnificent ! Must to play.

McGuba wrote: - Most units move slower on soft (snowy and muddy) terrain
- "Wide tracked" movement added: units with this movement type can move faster on soft terrain due to their wider tracks which results in lower ground pressure per square inch (e.g. T-34, KV-1, Tiger, Panther, Churchill and their derivatives)
- "Desert tracked" movement added: tracked units have to be "tropicalized" (with improved air filters and cooling installed) i.e. upgraded to a similar unit with different movement type for free for optimal movement on desert and dunes terrain, however, these are comparably slower on clear and countryside terrain (units with "wide tracked" movement are not affected as they already have better mobility on soft terrain)
- Increased road movement speed: units with tracked, wide tracked, desert tracked, leg and halftrack movement can now move 20-40% faster on dry roads (effective use of the road network is now more important)

I'd liked all changes related with Movement balance. Let's test and see...

McGuba wrote: - Heavy artillery has a bit higher ground defense and rate of fire

Heavy - it means 15 cm or 17 and more ?
And why you did this ?

McGuba wrote: - Units equipped only with light machine guns (like Panzer I or early Hurricane or Spitfire) can no longer attack hard (armoured) targets

Whats wrong with 1 HA for Pz I and same vehicle ?

Last question:
What will be new in BF 2.0 ?

Heavy - it means 15 cm or 17 and more ?
And why you did this ?

Yeah, heavy arty starts at 15cm. Somewhere I read that these bigger guns were more sturdy and strongly built than the smaller ones. I believe that the biggest danger for artillery guns were the enemy's counter firing artillery, and I think a bigger, well built artillery piece should have better resistance to fragmantation and HE shells than smaller and lighter guns (the crew is another thing, but I guess they took cover during enemy artillery barrage). That's the historical aspect. The more important gameplay aspect is that in v1.9 I added some understrength heavy and very heavy artillery pieces, both for more variation and to have a more accurate OOB. But historically these were much less numerous than the 10cm and 15cm field guns so I had to make them understrength to fit in the unit scale of the mod. But since they are understrength, due to the game mechanics they can be destroyed by the enemy much easier than a full strength unit. So I had to increase their defense stats a bit to compensate.

Whats wrong with 1 HA for Pz I and same vehicle ?

Pz I and the like only had light machine gun (7.62mm-8mm) which could not really penetrate even the lightest armour, unless at short range or by using special ammunition, which was not common at all. Also, a Hurricane Mk I or IIb, only equipped with light machine guns could not damage tanks or armoured targets or concrete bunkers at all. Whereas in the base game all these units have a chance to damage much better armored enemy units, especially if played in normal combat mode. In reality a Pz.I should have no chance at all to damage a T-34 or KV-1. But in the game it is possible to get for example 1 to 3 or something similar kill to loss ratio, which I think is not good.

Last question:
What will be new in BF 2.0 ?

Hahaha I have no clue.
But seriously, when it comes probably it will only upgrade the multiplayer game.

McGuba wrote:

You already gave explanation about "Wide Tracked" and "Desert Tracked" movement types, which are very well implemented and explained in an earlier post here, but I also see there is an additional tracked type movement in the file tables, called "tracked2"... What is this for?

Ah, yeah, I somehow forgot about this. Basically, I wanted to add a new movement type to the Panzer IID/E derivatives (Flammpanzer and Marder IID). The original Panzer IID was a very promising desing with Christie-suspension that provided higher road speed than the earlier Panzer II models (55km/h as opposed to 40), but in Poland its poor off road performace was realised. So the existing models were converted to Flammpanzer IIs and later Marder IID. Thus I wanted to have a movement type for these which provides better road speed, but worse off-road speed than comparable tank models. I just forgot to give a specific name to this movement type.

Ah! Yes... The case for Pz IID/E... fast on roads, but not very good off-road performance... I also thought that it was necessary to add a new movement type for this vehicle, and perhaps any other one with similar on and off road performances (but I cannot think about any other tank with this problem). Thanks for the explanation! Maybe one option to call this move type is "Fast-Tracked".

guille1434 wrote: Ah! Yes... The case for Pz IID/E... fast on roads, but not very good off-road performance... I also thought that it was necessary to add a new movement type for this vehicle, and perhaps any other one with similar on and off road performances (but I cannot think about any other tank with this problem). Thanks for the explanation! Maybe one option to call this move type is "Fast-Tracked".

Pz IID/E was produced about 43 pcs
Yep. Of coz this unit a can to took place in Very Special Small Tactical Scenarios. But not a in BF.
And same about Pz II Amfibious and IIG (12 pcs).

McGuba wrote:

Last question:
What will be new in BF 2.0 ?

Hahaha I have no clue.
But seriously, when it comes probably it will only upgrade the multiplayer game.

Very sad. I think you have more ideas for 2.0 then only Multiplayer
I hope you change your mind and add something "Special' in BF 2.0.

Yrfin wrote:Pz IID/E was produced about 43 pcs
Yep. Of coz this unit a can to took place in Very Special Small Tactical Scenarios. But not a in BF.
And same about Pz II Amfibious and IIG (12 pcs).

I never said that the Pz.IID would ever be present in this mod. All of the 43 produced Pz.IID were converted to Pz.II Flamm between May 1940 and Febr 1941. However, the more numerous Pz.II Flamm and Marder IID had the same basic chassis and tosion-bar suspension as the Pz.IID which resulted in different road and off-road speed for these types. That's why I added the new movement type.

Very sad. I think you have more ideas for 2.0 then only Multiplayer
I hope you change your mind and add something "Special' in BF 2.0.

Hey, wait a second, I have just released a new version for this mod after nearly a year. Which comes with a lot of changes, new content and fixes. And you already want even more. Well...

(The reason why I think a new version will be necessary is that I already see that the multiplayer scenario is not polished enough.)

McGuba wrote:

Yrfin wrote:Pz IID/E was produced about 43 pcs
Yep. Of coz this unit a can to took place in Very Special Small Tactical Scenarios. But not a in BF.
And same about Pz II Amfibious and IIG (12 pcs).

I never said that the Pz.IID would ever be present in this mod. All of the 43 produced Pz.IID were converted to Pz.II Flamm between May 1940 and Febr 1941. However, the more numerous Pz.II Flamm and Marder IID had the same basic chassis and tosion-bar suspension as the Pz.IID which resulted in different road and off-road speed for these types. That's why I added the new movement type.

Id like a New movement type
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 47&t=76308
Of coz its looking good idea for New Movements and I will be used it in my Test New Movements.

But ...
Pz Flamm II was build 112 + 43 remaded. Its not at BF scale.
Marder IID was produced 201 pcs. 1 Unit ?
New type movement for 350 pcs (1-2 unit in scale BF) ?

McGuba wrote:

Very sad. I think you have more ideas for 2.0 then only Multiplayer
I hope you change your mind and add something "Special' in BF 2.0.

Hey, wait a second, I have just released a new version for this mod after nearly a year. Which comes with a lot of changes, new content and fixes. And you already want even more. Well...

(The reason why I think a new version will be necessary is that I already see that the multiplayer scenario is not polished enough.)

I think 1.9 will be good enought for me and xxx PzC players for few mounth.
Thanks for this. And good luck with future realise of BF.

But what do you think about:
- HQ units
- ability build Defence Lines .
- ability AI counter-attack by triggers .
- change type of Terrain for strategical used
(Str. Recon for information, Bridge for key points)
and so on.
in your future release ?