Slitherine

bru888 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:31 pm

kverdon wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:11 pm Tiger's March - Again an issue with the victory conditions. I eliminated all the German units ok but failed the primary victory condition to not loose a single British Unit. Though I lost no units during the scenario, The Victory condition was marked 9/1 from the start (typo from 0/1?) and thus caused me to fail the scenario.

Mea non culpa. I can find nothing wrong with this objective or trigger. Are you playing with version 1.7?

Maybe I can help with that, if I'm right - if not, my apologies.

I think this is caused by a trigger "misunderstanding" that I've pointed out many times with Erik's campaigns, but it has obviously been overlooked: I'm not sure whether it's the "check unit count / destroyed /core units" condition or some similar, but with this configuration the trigger also takes into account all the player's core units that have been killed during the campaign (in the previous missions) and now are shown in the "destroyed" unit tab. You won't experience this "bug" if starting the scen fresh out of the editor.

Crap. You're right, Gabe. My apologies, kverdon. Five core casualties, carried forward from previous scenarios:


Now the only question is whether that core checkbox makes a difference if it is turned off.

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:59 am Now the only question is whether that core checkbox makes a difference if it is turned off.

Which it did not. This means that this type of condition is quite literal; there are destroyed units in the current scenario from previous scenarios, and they count. The trigger is sensing them regardless of whether or not the core checkmark is used. The checkmark would work only to focus just on core units.

It's not a bug, Gabe, when you think of it in this manner. It's literal and WAD.

Instead of "check unit count / destroyed /core units," this will work instead:


Erik, along with 25Verrieres and 26Bois, a revised 29Bistiere is uploaded to the "Back to Erik" folder. I will look for other instances of this problem.

Found another anomaly with your British Normandy Worthington Scenario. I started to deploy for the Worthington Scenario and noticed something rather odd. The complete lack of any armor. Looking this up, this is an ahistorical anomaly. Task force Worthington was composed of the British Columbia Armored Regiment along with the Algonquin Regiment of Infantry. Now I know OOB does not have any Canadian Armor units but the scenario should at least allow for 1 or 2 units of British Armor from your core forces to account for the British Columbia Armored Regiment. I'll mode my version to account for this.

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:02 am It's not a bug, Gabe, when you think of it in this manner. It's literal and WAD.

Fully agree. I think the real bug's in the scen design, using the wrong triggers...

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:02 am I will look for other instances of this problem.

Actually I'm quite sorry to lay this task onto you, Bruce. There are A LOT of these kind of objectives with Erik's stuff. Basically, every "do not lose X units" objective has to be checked and ammended, if applicable.

Bru

I've placed all 3 updated scenarios in the campaign folder(s).

GabeKnight wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 11:52 am

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:02 am It's not a bug, Gabe, when you think of it in this manner. It's literal and WAD.

Fully agree. I think the real bug's in the scen design, using the wrong triggers...

bru888 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 2:02 am I will look for other instances of this problem.

Actually I'm quite sorry to lay this task onto you, Bruce. There are A LOT of these kind of objectives with Erik's stuff. Basically, every "do not lose X units" objective has to be checked and ammended, if applicable.

Yes, this is a real bummer...
What is the purpose of checking losses in previous scenarios by default ?
Looks like bad design

kverdon wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 5:39 am Found another anomaly with your British Normandy Worthington Scenario. I started to deploy for the Worthington Scenario and noticed something rather odd. The complete lack of any armor. Looking this up, this is an ahistorical anomaly. Task force Worthington was composed of the British Columbia Armored Regiment along with the Algonquin Regiment of Infantry. Now I know OOB does not have any Canadian Armor units but the scenario should at least allow for 1 or 2 units of British Armor from your core forces to account for the British Columbia Armored Regiment. I'll mode my version to account for this.

There are 86 Canadian command points at start.
I hope you have some tank units from previous Canadian scenarios...?
There should be a number of spawned Can tanks.

British reinforcements (spawn units):
Turn 16: 8 Sherman Fireflies
Turn 17: 1 Crusader and 1 M3 Stuart
Turn 18: 4 Sherman Fireflies

Did you not see any of these?

BTW, it looks like trigger 'Check Last Kill' can't be used for objectives like 'do not lose more than 2 units'.
This trigger basically does what the label says

I can't find any other trigger than 'Check Unit Count' that would do the job.
But then again. I'm not the most trigger-happy bloke around

Edit
As far as I can see, 'Check Last Kill' can't be used for checking that nothing was killed (and rewards thus awarded).
Waiting for the cavalry to come to the rescue...

Erik2 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 12:54 pm As far as I can see, 'Check Last Kill' can't be used for checking that nothing was killed (and rewards thus awarded).
Waiting for the cavalry to come to the rescue...

Yes, it works for that first kill only, which is why it is suitable for the situation above. Let me put my thinking cap on as I go over the rest of the campaign. Don't forget that, as far as I know now, the issue is:

1) Only with friendly core units (the game does not bring forward previously dead enemy units or friendly aux units), and

2) Only with the "Destroyed" condition, not the "Alive" or "Deployed" conditions. These may not suit this type of objective, however - one where the objective is to keep all units alive without knowing what the total number of them would be.

May I assume that you are not tinkering with the campaign as we speak and that I can extract the contents of the UK & Canada Normandy 1944 folder to work on it? Please confirm.

Thanks Erik,

I started over with 1.7 and found the Canadian Armor this time. Thanks for including them. However, I don't see any way to deploy my 8 British Air Points?

Edit: I found the issue. It was the "Offmap Air Supply" checkbox again.

Edit: Found a much bigger problem. At 14:30 when the British reinforcements show up, The hex that is supposed to supply them doesn't so they immediately go out of supply. Capturing the supply point does not help. I'm trying to sort this out by having the scenario change the hex ownership before setting the supply value and see if that does the trick. Otherwise you may just have to set that as a British Supply point before the scenario starts.

Edit: I think I’m on the right path to the fix. If you create an event to change the ownership of the Supply Hex to British and then set the supply level it looks like it works. It is a bit odd though that the Germans don’t do anything for the first 14 turns of so. This gave me plenty of time to use the Canadian Engineer to blow the southern bridge and lay minefields on the eastern edge of the perimeter.

One other observation on Worthington. Was it your intension that the German go into a low supply state when their 2nd wave appears? If the British hold the town SE of the Hill then the Gemans stay in a state of low supply and decreased effectiveness. I certainly did not mind that as it was a touch haul to pull it off inspite of that. Not sure I could have pulled it off otherwise with the SS hordes descending upon the hill.

OBE goes to the Canadian Royal Engineer unit who no only blew the bridge south of the hill but also dropped 4 minefields that majorly helped hold the eastern perimeter.

Bruce

I'll keep my dirty little mittens off the Normandy scenarios until you're done.

kverdon

Thanks for the Worthington feedback.
Added to my ever-growing Normandy list.

Erik2 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:33 am Bruce

I'll keep my dirty little mittens off the Normandy scenarios until you're done.

Finished. Four other scenarios were involved in the "destroyed core units carryover" issue. Here is a table of the changes:


Using aux units is a no-brainer but I thought I would test and demonstrate the use of “Kills & Casualties” and “Check Last Kill” conditions. Please view the following images and comments.

This is 08Mesnil where I used the “Kills & Casualties” condition; note the presence of two previously dead core tanks:


First combat, no new kills yet, objective is fine:


A tank kill occurs; the popup appears, and the objective is now failed:


A second tank killed has no further effect, as expected:


This is 32Gaumesnil where I used the “Check Last Kill” condition; again note the presence of two previously dead core tanks:


First combat, no new kills yet, objective is fine:


An Allied unit is killed and the objective is now failed:


Another Allied unit is killed but has no further effect, as expected:


Below is the edits table. I have uploaded the four scenarios in the "Back to Erik" folder.

A few more things.

While reviewing the campaign, I did open up Gold initially and I noticed that you must have subsequently created two secondary objectives for that scenario (I dimly remember there being none in the first pass). There was a typo here that I corrected (and I expanded the description a bit):


The description is revised to inform the player of the requirement "once the hex is vacant." The reason for this is, the trigger is set for "Any Event" and presumably that will be when an Allied unit is on the hex itself. Therefore, the construction group spawns on a neighbor hex and perhaps the player does not realize that the airstrip must be built exactly on the airfield hex. Better to delay spawning the construction group until that hex is cleared:


Also in Gold, I felt that this trigger needs to be timed for when the primary objective is completed, one of its conditions to fire. Hence it should be set for Capture VP Event, which I did in the revised version:


Another matter is the number of bunkers in Totalize. Please recall our conversation about the number of units, particularly bunkers, in that scenario. You indicated that you would consider reducing the overall number of units, and that included the bunkers. Apparently that was done because instead of 80 bunkers, there are now only 30. However, you overlooked adjusting the objective, briefing, and trigger accordingly. I reduced the goal from 50 to 20 in all instances:


So 03Gold and 31Totalize are also now in the "Back to Erik" folder. If you agree, perhaps when you merge all six revised scenarios back into UK & Canada Normandy 1944, you will be ready to release version 1.8.

One more piece of advice: You may want to go through each of the scenarios and, using the Unit List, review what you did when removing historical Allied core units. I still see a number of them here and there. Perhaps you overlooked some of those that were in reserve or hiding in remote areas of the map?

bru888 wrote: ↑Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:02 pm Using aux units is a no-brainer but I thought I would test and demonstrate the use of “Kills & Casualties” and “Check Last Kill” conditions. Please view the following images and comments.

Yeah, that were my suggestions, too. Although I did not think of the "check last kill", but rather the "unit killed/removed" condition.

Ahem....Bruce....concerning the "destroyed core units carryover" issue.... are you....by any chance....also....maybe....at some point....going over your CSI sweeps of Erik's campaigns again?

I've checked the Unit Navigator... actually there is for example no paratrooper nor tank directly available for the Canadians. But as you have been able to give them tanks, for instance, it should be possible to give them paratroopers as well - maybe not in the list to "buy", but already deployed (airborne or not) within the scenarios...

I assume it's what you did this already for the tanks: taking a British one and then changing its flag... Am I right?

Bruce

Thanks for finding and fixing these issues (above and beyond duty...)
I'm moving these scenarios into my Normandy folders until a new campaign version is ready

There are still a number of intended historical core units present in some scenarios.
These should be restricted to certain Canadian unit types not previously assigned. Typically Canadian arm/art/AT/AA units that the player can't purchase because they do not exist in the unit list.

ColonelY wrote: ↑Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:44 am I've checked the Unit Navigator... actually there is for example no paratrooper nor tank directly available for the Canadians. But as you have been able to give them tanks, for instance, it should be possible to give them paratroopers as well - maybe not in the list to "buy", but already deployed (airborne or not) within the scenarios...

I assume it's what you did this already for the tanks: taking a British one and then changing its flag... Am I right?

Correct.

That said, I will stick to my sources regarding the (Canadian) units available in each scenario.
Adding "all" British unit types to the Canucks as options would be opening several cans of worms
Lot of work and too many units in the force list for too little gain IMO.
Let's wait until the devs create an official Canadian campaign and add all the proper unit types (don't hold your breath...).