Slitherine

Posted: **Mon May 31, 2021 8:45 pm**

ColonelY wrote: ↑Mon May 31, 2021 6:46 pm I insist, if I may: Saverne must be very well defended! (Even if it means adding garrison units. ) [...]

Well, Phalsbourg too, actually.

Historically, Saverne has even been taken BEFORE Phalsbourg

(thanks to this audacious decision by Leclerc, sending tanks along a road that no one would expect him to follow).

Posted: **Mon May 31, 2021 10:49 pm**

All good stuff, even the part about the forts. I think I understand what you are saying about surprise/delay but it would mean extra programming for something that the player may not even notice without a popup message telling him so. I don't see it as a good use of my time.

But our discussion did have the happy result of uncovering the inadvisability of having forts instantaneously converting to French ownership, leading to fortress duels and them bombarding the city. Instead, they will be neutralized as the French continue their onslaught.

Thanks for your opinion on the 11th PzD. Remnants will appear as you suggest and be explained by a popup message.

Be assured, the Saverne Gap will be heavily defended from Phalsbourg (maybe Sarrebourg) to Saverne. That of course was the main route through the mountains: highway, railroad, and canal. There are two mountain passes as well and those will be guarded and mined a bit but it will be clear to the player that they are possible alternatives for moving east. Even so, the player must eventually take and hold Saverne Gap, even if it is FROM the east.

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:13 am**

To change us from the deserts and sand that we have already seen, as well as the jungles that have already been encountered and will be again very soon (21Indochina

), there will soon be snow covering the ground in 20OperationNordwind...

It is well known that there was a good layer of snow and that the weather was terrible at the beginning of Operation Wacht am Rhein (example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of ... h_1945.jpg )

For Operation Nordwind, sometimes called "the other Battle of the Bulge", it is expected that the ground will be white with snow!

Tanks during this operation: https://www.google.ch/imgres?imgurl=htt ... egUIARCtAQ
*******
(Source: https://www.republicain-lorrain.fr/edit ... te-oubliee )

Why is the Nordwind operation little known?

Michel Klein: "It fell at the same time as the Battle of the Bulge, which received a lot of media attention. The craze for this last German offensive dates back to the last 20 years only, probably because there are fewer and fewer survivors. "

The operation, in any case, was very violent.

"Nordwind was Hitler's last gasp. He gathered the last fanatical troops to retake Strasbourg. It was like a last stand. The fighting was tough, as elite units were present. In harsh weather conditions, a very difficult winter to boot. "
*******

As for the weather for the 19Strasbourg scenario, it starts with rain... no snow on the ground yet (or no snow that "sticks" to the ground)... but, in anticipation of the very white sequel AND because it's historical, I suggest

, before the weather improves in the 19Strasbourg scenario, to have a few episodes of snowfall that are inserted in a longer phase of rain.

This is still precipitation, but it announces the color to come (in 20OperationNordwind, that is)... white as snow!

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:32 am**

On December 11 and 12, Hitler called a meeting of all the commanders up to the divisional level and informed them of his intentions. Hitler's hopes of escaping defeat were based on the differences that could exist between the Allies. He added that the destruction of several Allied divisions would disrupt the understanding between the Americans, British, French and Canadians, and that a coalition between partners with such different ideals as the Allies and the Soviets would quickly break up. After the briefing, Hitler made the following statement:

"This offensive will decide our fate: life or death. I want all my soldiers to fight with all their strength and without mercy. This battle must be fought with brutality and any resistance must be crushed by a wave of violence and terror. At this crucial hour of our motherland, I expect every one of my soldiers to be brave again and again. The enemy must be crushed, now or never! Long live the Great Reich!"

It is very clear: For the Germans, the battle had to be brutal! (And it was very violent...)

Besides, the main goal of Operation Nordwind, in Hitler's eyes, was not really to retake Strasbourg (despite the psychological impact of the thing), but to exterminate several American divisions!

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:41 am**

But all in good time. At present, Strasbourg is in preparation.

But this digression to justify the presence, in the Liberation of Strasbourg scenario, that a few episodes of snow in the middle of the rain (it's already November, by the way).

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:12 pm**

Do we have a little room for another historical event between (if I'm not mistaken related to dates) 15JedburghMissions and 16Argentan?

ColonelY wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 3:34 pm We still have this one:

ColonelY wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 8:46 pm Hey, do you remember the famous Normandie-Niemen?

Historical event on July 15, 1944 (either in a scenario or as a campaign event, we'll see!):

The facts... as basis for text event or suggestion of text... anyway, here is it:
In August 1943, all the French technical personnel were transferred to the Middle East and replaced by Soviet personnel (it must be admitted that the French mechanics were not used to working in temperatures of -30°C...). As a result, the "Normandie" lost its companions of the first hour, but gained this specificity which contributed to forge its symbolic dimension: French pilots and Russian mechanics united in the same unit. This was a first in history.
A new tragedy occurred on July 15, 1944: Lieutenant Maurice de Seynes, who was the victim of a fuel leak, rushed back to the Doubrovka airfield from where he had taken off a few minutes earlier. Blinded by the gasoline fumes that invaded his cockpit, he tried in vain several times to land. The Soviets ordered him to jump.
De Seynes refused because he did not want to abandon his mechanic Vladimir Bielozoub to a certain death, as it is commonly done for short trips from one field to another. And Bielozoub does not have a parachute...
After several other unsuccessful attempts, the Yak 9 crashes and explodes, killing its two occupants.
The Parisian aristocrat and the Volga peasant were buried next to each other in Doubrovka. The sacrifice of Maurice de Seynes had an enormous impact in the USSR and will go down in the history books as a symbol of the unfailing friendship between France and Russia.

Picture(s) here (at least the one with the French pilot and the Russian mechanic ):
https://www.herodote.net/12_novembre_19 ... 421112.php

Or perhaps this may rather be represented like two events in a row... the first one with some cool picture and as text about the first paragraph, more "generic". And the second one about our two famous guys.
There is a scenario about this famous group of pilots... A little reminder for the player?

Rather cool, I would say; and there hasn't been much talk of snow or frost so far in this campaign...

THE (main) picture of interest for us is a little after the middle of the webpage (scrolling down, I mean)... the one with the two guys on the photo.

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:47 pm**

ColonelY wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:13 am... there will soon be snow covering the ground in 20OperationNordwind...

In view of which, it is very fortunate that seasons are just a matter of hitting a toggle switch, considering my intention to use the same map for Strasbourg and Operation Nordwind.

So, a non-sticking snow shower in Strasbourg:

: Screenshot 1.jpg (447.84 KiB) Viewed 1706 times

becomes a snowstorm blanketing the earth in Operation Nordwind:

: Screenshot 3.jpg (462.19 KiB) Viewed 1706 times

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:50 pm**

Oops, I just noticed something. See the Rhine "River" (it's mostly lake hexes except for the Kehl bridge crossings) is frozen over in Operation Nordwind? Do I want this? Maybe in this scenario, it would be a good secondary objective to strike across the Rhine and take out that pesky outpost over there ...

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:01 pm**

bru888 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 8:50 pm Oops, I just noticed something. See the Rhine "River" (it's mostly lake hexes except for the Kehl bridge crossings) is frozen over in Operation Nordwind? Do I want this? Maybe in this scenario, it would be a good secondary objective to strike across the Rhine and take out that pesky outpost over there ...

So here is something for you to consider and comment upon, Colonel, if you will. If I use shallow water hexes for the Rhine (see the northern part), it does not freeze over whereas the lake hexes will (see the southern part).

: Screenshot 4.jpg (352.45 KiB) Viewed 1701 times

Consider:
• Would the Rhine actually freeze over in the winter? I get the feeling that it's very rare; a couple of internet search hits say that the last time it occurred in some places was 1962-1963. To assume that it did in the winter of 1944-1945 is presumptuous.
• So I'm thinking that using non-freezing shallow water for the river is best for both scenarios, but the two "ford" hexes containing the blown bridges will be passable in Operation Nordwind. Would you care to see the Allies crossing the Rhine in this scenario, targeting Kehl and surrounding towns? Or is that too non-historical?

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:19 pm**

And here is one more thing to consider, please. You mention much rain in the Strasbourg scenario. Do you see any benefit or drawback in using the wet climate setting in this one? The difference would be that the "wet climate type affects the battlefield: units move slower in the mud and dirt roads no longer provide any movement bonuses." Please let me know what you think about this.

Visually, it would seem that these subdued earth tones typical for mid-November (wet climate):

: Screenshot 7.jpg (580.84 KiB) Viewed 1698 times

would be more suitable than the bright green summery colours shown here (default climate):

: Screenshot 6.jpg (628.2 KiB) Viewed 1698 times

But of course, unit movement would be slowed. Please advise.

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:48 pm**

ColonelY wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 9:32 am On December 11 and 12, Hitler called a meeting of all the commanders up to the divisional level and informed them of his intentions. Hitler's hopes of escaping defeat were based on the differences that could exist between the Allies. He added that the destruction of several Allied divisions would disrupt the understanding between the Americans, British, French and Canadians, and that a coalition between partners with such different ideals as the Allies and the Soviets would quickly break up. After the briefing, Hitler made the following statement:

"This offensive will decide our fate: life or death. I want all my soldiers to fight with all their strength and without mercy. This battle must be fought with brutality and any resistance must be crushed by a wave of violence and terror. At this crucial hour of our motherland, I expect every one of my soldiers to be brave again and again. The enemy must be crushed, now or never! Long live the Great Reich!"

It is very clear: For the Germans, the battle had to be brutal! (And it was very violent...)

Besides, the main goal of Operation Nordwind, in Hitler's eyes, was not really to retake Strasbourg (despite the psychological impact of the thing), but to exterminate several American divisions!

I was just thinking about this myself. In my mind, Operation Nordwind is shaping up to be a very big and intense defensive battle in which the Allies will struggle to survive the hoards of Huns at first, only to turn the tide in the end. That's why I want those French forts intact, pounding away at the Germans closing in on Strasbourg.

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:01 pm**

ColonelY wrote: ↑Tue Jun 01, 2021 12:12 pm Do we have a little room for another historical event between (if I'm not mistaken related to dates) 15JedburghMissions and 16Argentan?

Nope, full up!

It turns out that the limit for popup campaign messages between scenarios is five, due to campaign editor constraints. Here we have five, leading into Argentan:

: Screenshot 8.jpg (486.51 KiB) Viewed 1691 times

If you try to add a sixth, the input boxes overlap the "Add event" button so that clicking in them attempts to add yet another event:

: Screenshot 9.jpg (411 KiB) Viewed 1691 times

So this is why you have an editor-in-chief who will tell tell you that the incident that you describe, while it may tickle your fancy, is just not important enough to take the place of more important events, given the space limitation.

And I have said this before: You and I may enjoy all of these vignettes but we try some players' patience with them. I want to tell the story of Free France, hence the number of events that we have now. Some are major events and some minor but acceptable because they are interesting.

Of course, "interesting" is quite subjective. To you, two guys dying in a plane crash is interesting. To me, it's not. There has to be some line of judgment (mine, by claim or default) where some events are deemed too minor to be included and would adversely take up the player's time, even if there was sufficient room for them all.

Posted: **Tue Jun 01, 2021 10:10 pm**

Now, kindly put on your weatherman hat and give me your advice on the meteorological aspects that I mentioned above. And whether you would like to see a winter assault on Kehl in Operation Nordwind (if the Allies survive the initial German onslaught).

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:11 am**

Okay, we’ll then forget about the event with Soviets. One last thing, though. “To you, two guys dying in a plane crash is interesting.” Well, in this case, it was to me, indeed, for two reasons: historically it was widely used by propaganda and thus become of high symbolical importance; for the campaign, it could have been an opportunity to have a little reminder, like a little wink, to the awesome scenario about French pilots in Russia.

Well, it could always be during another scenario, like an "anniversary": "A month ago (or two, whatever), this and that happened. With the consequences..." You have the information, the idea, you choose. I won't come back to it anymore.

*******
My weatherman hat put on?

Okay, done!

So, in my opinion:

-> The Rhine should not be frozen.

-> Thanks to the two “ford” frozen hexes with blown bridges, there would indeed be an opportunity to strike across the Rhine… I would say; yes, let’s do it, let's go for Kehl as well (sec obj)!
Too non-historical, you asked? No, if we remember that the French have tried to capture Kehl (in Germany!) when they were liberating Strasbourg… so, they were definitely trying to go there as well!

-> Yes, let’s use for Strasbourg with the wet climate:
1. More appropriate locking, more immersive related to dates and weather, a good variation compared to other scenarios much more “greenish”
2. Unit movement slowed? This scenario won’t be a short one anyway, so that doesn’t count that much anymore…

Yet, while I'm still wearing this weatherman hat, here is another point:

-> Now, have we turned on the “wet climate” for the battle of Cassino as well?

Because the sticky mud at Cassino was somehow famous… So,

it should be depicted as well in the 13OperationDiadem, which simply means then testing once more the scenario to see how many turns should be added to compensate for a little slower movement. (For example: https://www.google.ch/search?q=ww2+the+ ... A2qkCK8dOM - this picture might even be used together

with a nice and immersive event about this damn sticky mud, somewhere during the first turns of this scenario!

)

EDIT: Yes, I've seen that you've already used "Arid" during some of the scenarios in the desert, that's great.

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:16 pm**

ColonelY wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:31 am The victories won in Italy nevertheless required heavy sacrifices, so much so that the battle of Monte Cassino was nicknamed the "Verdun of the Second World War". The fierce resistance of the Wehrmacht, withdrawn behind the defenses erected on the summits of Abruzzo, imposed on the Allied troops a long and trying war of positions...
*******
In this book (the same than before), the chaotic relief is also described; almost devoid of vegetation in winter, without easy roads, bristling with rocks, with in addition to these natural obstacles a big surprise: the mud, the liquid mud, the eternal slippery mud!

Indeed, the climate, so particular of the Italian front, is another bad surprise for the combatants of both camps. Moreover, General Ringel, commander of the 5th German Mountain Division wrote: "It is obvious that the divisions coming from other theaters of operations were at first unable to withstand the bitter cold of the high mountains to which they were not accustomed and the frightful rolling fire of the Allied artillery engaged in the great battles. Although the cold was not as relentless as in Russia, the constant changes in the weather, from rain to snow to frost to storm, seriously disturbed the men. In their first letters to their families, they described how they would have gladly returned to Russia on their hands and knees..."
[...]

The mud at Cassino's battle is famous!

I've taken another look here, for example: https://www.goforbroke.org/learn/histor ... assino.php where we can find these extracts:

"To take the Gustav Line, the Allies had to descend into the Rapido River valley, traverse two miles of open fields filled with landmines, mud, and knee-deep, frigid water, cross a swiftly-moving river, then climb past more mines and barbed wire and up steep, rocky slopes to the 1,500-foot peak of Monte Cassino. From there they would have to ascend still higher to a four-story fortress with 10-foot-thick stone walls. [...] On the night of January 24, A and C Companies crossed the muddy flats. The men stopped to check for trip wires. Then they waded through or swam the deep irrigation ditches filled with icy water, all under German machine gun and artillery fire. Finally, at dawn, they made it to a wall, sheltered from the enemy fire. [...] Our attack was launched at midnight. We didn't know that irrigation was there; we had some idea. I went out there on a patrol and found it, and one of our other patrols was captured in that very vicinity. So we came with some temporary things, you know, planks to cross it, but nothing provided by the engineers or anybody else. Once you cross that, you were almost knee-deep in mud. Prior to flooding it, the Germans buried thousands of mines in that area and thousands of flares so that the Germans would know you're coming no matter what. It's almost impossible to avoid all of those things."

Mud and knee-deep?

Well, then I like it more and more this picture with American soldiers and one of their jeeps.

So, as we know now that the "wet" climate somehow take into account the mud, then, well, it should be in 13OperationDiadem. Together with a nice and immersive event (the Germans wanting to return to Russia on their hands and knees would be awesome from that point of view... how could we hear about it so soon? Well, it's not the first battle here, we could have some prisoners having talked about it, couldn't we?). And perhaps see it there is the need to add some short episodes of rain and snow here and there! (Even if the ground isn't covered by snow, that is.)

That shall definitely add something to the immersion, in this scenario.

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:12 pm**

ColonelY wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:11 am My weatherman hat put on? Okay, done! So, in my opinion:

-> The Rhine should not be frozen. Done — used shallow water hexes.

-> Thanks to the two “ford” frozen hexes with blown bridges, there would indeed be an opportunity to strike across the Rhine… I would say; yes, let’s do it, let's go for Kehl as well (sec obj)!
Too non-historical, you asked? No, if we remember that the French have tried to capture Kehl (in Germany!) when they were liberating Strasbourg… so, they were definitely trying to go there as well! Will do. I think it will be a nice ending for Operation Nordwind.

-> Yes, let’s use for Strasbourg with the wet climate:
1. More appropriate locking, more immersive related to dates and weather, a good variation compared to other scenarios much more “greenish”
2. Unit movement slowed? This scenario won’t be a short one anyway, so that doesn’t count that much anymore… Done. Yes, it's funny how that turned out about the length of Strasbourg. Recall that I was thinking it would be like Medenine, a lead-in to Mareth Line, but once I decided to make it more than just Leclerc riding in a tank into the city, that idea went out the window.

Yet, while I'm still wearing this weatherman hat, here is another point:

-> Now, have we turned on the “wet climate” for the battle of Cassino as well? Because the sticky mud at Cassino was somehow famous… So, it should be depicted as well in the 13OperationDiadem, which simply means then testing once more the scenario to see how many turns should be added to compensate for a little slower movement. (For example: https://www.google.ch/search?q=ww2+the+ ... A2qkCK8dOM - this picture might even be used together with a nice and immersive event about this damn sticky mud, somewhere during the first turns of this scenario! ) Agree. Look for another post in a moment.

EDIT: Yes, I've seen that you've already used "Arid" during some of the scenarios in the desert, that's great. Now, that would have been weird if I had used the default climate in Bir Hakeim!

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:22 pm**

bru888 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:12 pm
ColonelY wrote: ↑Wed Jun 02, 2021 8:11 am [...] Yes, it's funny how that turned out about the length of Strasbourg. Recall that I was thinking it would be like Medenine, a lead-in to Mareth Line, but once I decided to make it more than just Leclerc riding in a tank into the city, that idea went out the window. [...]

Indeed.

But it's much better this way.

(Besides, it would be better not to make the scenarios much easier than the first ones...)

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:35 pm**

Operation Diadem

Before:

: Screenshot 1.jpg (529.91 KiB) Viewed 1617 times

After:

: Screenshot 3.jpg (494.37 KiB) Viewed 1617 times

In Turn 2, these messages:

: Screenshot 6.jpg (180.34 KiB) Viewed 1617 times

: Screenshot 7.jpg (182.92 KiB) Viewed 1617 times

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:43 pm**

Posted: **Wed Jun 02, 2021 1:45 pm**

That mud photo came very close to winning the Bru Photography Prize. Category: Size Proportions. It was almost one of the exceedingly rare images that I have come across which, when resized (usually the height first, 415 pixels, then crop to the width, 512 pixels) require no cropping at all! That is, when reduced in size, it would be precisely 512 x 415 pixels. The mud photo was oh, so close ...

The Grand Prize will go to the photo that I find someday that is ALREADY 512 x 415 pixels! Hundreds of images now, and it's still a mirage of an oasis in the desert, a hazy hallucinatory dream ...

Slitherine

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