Slitherine

Cablenexus wrote:All road errors I got in one overview:

Thank you for that. Logged.

Hey guys,

I finished naming settlements, setting up starting towns, starting units, war/peace standings, starting resource units for all nations.
Also I released first version Hollandv0.46 as a closed alpha for Pavel (thank you for looking into it). I await his comments and will finetune the scenario afterwards to his liking.

TO DO:

- Assign starting resources
- Add rivers and roads
- Assign custom army unit names
- Assign custom fort/temple/stable names
- Add better cow model
- Assign Royality and Morale settings
- Customize starting towns (morale, happiness etc)
- Add flavor text for tribes
- Add custom tribe portraits
- Add objectives

More to come...

I hope Pavel allow me to share the scenario with some of the test group, for those who want to try? Zakblood already want to test! I hope one of you can help me with the English flavor text I want to add to the tribes (just correct the spelling and grammar).

I aim to make the first alpha release ready after release of Agressors beta v4 (hopefully) next week.

Kudos. 1) you had the vision, 2) you followed through, 3) the game/designer allows this kind of modding/scenario building. I'd like to test it.

I think Kubat/Slitherine should immediately make a big deal out of this, and publish pictures and your vision commentary on the public forum, along with a few brief words about how 'easy' it was to build.

(Of course, by 'easy' I mean the facilities and tools were readily available for you to do this).

You really keep me busy Cablenexus. I had other things to work on today (to make it to V4) but I decided to help you with that. I really like your enthusiasm and hard work.

There were couple of things to solve (related to your scenario):

• You overwritten the existing mod Ancient Rome (basically the only official mod). This is unfortunately unacceptable because everyone who would want to try your scenario would need to overwrite also the mod files.
• I had to dig out the modding functionality and try to make it work again (I havent used it for at least a year). After couple of issues, it seems to be working fine which means that you can have more mods in the same game.
• However, the initial purpose of the modding functionality was different. It was not meant for slight changes (like banners, animals, etc) but for entirely different worlds and eras. It was excepting full set of all the assets to be working correctly (not just a change of banner for example).
• I somehow had to create this "prototyping" functionality. Basically - you want to change some mod rules (but also leave everything else untouched), so there has to be a simple way how to use one mod as a "prototype" for another mod without a need to copy everything over. The copying over would also have another issue - once I update any of the files of the prototype mod, your mod would be outdated.
  I solved it this way - I created a new tool called "New mod prototype creator" which will be distributed with the game. It is very small file, where you select (from the list of existing mods on your machine) which mod you want to prototype and a name of the new mod. This will create a set of hard links of all the files of the prototype mod (a reference to the existing files NOT COPIES). Any of the files you want to change you simply change (this breaks the hard link so you will no longer use the same file).
• I might also create some kind of "copy over" tools. One for extracting those changed files (without a need to look for them) which would basically prepare your mod for installation on another (friend's) machine. And another tool which would install the mod on that machine. Both things can be done manually but it is a bit annoying - you (As a creator) would need to know which files you changed and these files would you need to ZIP. The friend would need to run the "New mod prototype creator" to create a folder and unpack your ZIP to this folder. It is a bit annoying but not that difficult. I might address this later but so far this should be sufficient for you to share your mod and scenario as well.

This will be part of V4.

Cablenexus wrote:I hope Pavel allow me to share the scenario with some of the test group, for those who want to try?

I have absolutely nothing against this. Just wait for V4 please

gwgardner wrote:Kudos. 1) you had the vision, 2) you followed through, 3) the game/designer allows this kind of modding/scenario building. I'd like to test it.

I think Kubat/Slitherine should immediately make a big deal out of this, and publish pictures and your vision commentary on the public forum, along with a few brief words about how 'easy' it was to build.

(Of course, by 'easy' I mean the facilities and tools were readily available for you to do this).

Thank you! We wait for v4 now.

pavelk wrote:You really keep me busy Cablenexus. I had other things to work on today (to make it to V4) but I decided to help you with that. I really like your enthusiasm and hard work.

There were couple of things to solve (related to your scenario):

• You overwritten the existing mod Ancient Rome (basically the only official mod). This is unfortunately unacceptable because everyone who would want to try your scenario would need to overwrite also the mod files.
• I had to dig out the modding functionality and try to make it work again (I havent used it for at least a year). After couple of issues, it seems to be working fine which means that you can have more mods in the same game.
• However, the initial purpose of the modding functionality was different. It was not meant for slight changes (like banners, animals, etc) but for entirely different worlds and eras. It was excepting full set of all the assets to be working correctly (not just a change of banner for example).
• I somehow had to create this "prototyping" functionality. Basically - you want to change some mod rules (but also leave everything else untouched), so there has to be a simple way how to use one mod as a "prototype" for another mod without a need to copy everything over. The copying over would also have another issue - once I update any of the files of the prototype mod, your mod would be outdated.
  I solved it this way - I created a new tool called "New mod prototype creator" which will be distributed with the game. It is very small file, where you select (from the list of existing mods on your machine) which mod you want to prototype and a name of the new mod. This will create a set of hard links of all the files of the prototype mod (a reference to the existing files NOT COPIES). Any of the files you want to change you simply change (this breaks the hard link so you will no longer use the same file).
• I might also create some kind of "copy over" tools. One for extracting those changed files (without a need to look for them) which would basically prepare your mod for installation on another (friend's) machine. And another tool which would install the mod on that machine. Both things can be done manually but it is a bit annoying - you (As a creator) would need to know which files you changed and these files would you need to ZIP. The friend would need to run the "New mod prototype creator" to create a folder and unpack your ZIP to this folder. It is a bit annoying but not that difficult. I might address this later but so far this should be sufficient for you to share your mod and scenario as well.

This will be part of V4.

Cablenexus wrote:I hope Pavel allow me to share the scenario with some of the test group, for those who want to try?

I have absolutely nothing against this. Just wait for V4 please

Sounds good! And thank you very much for investing time in this. I can believe you have more important work to do.
I highly appriciate it.

What can I say about creating a scenario for this game. The statement of Gardner (with nuance) that it was easy to setup made me think.
And you are right. It was easy. Of course there was a lot of time invested in creating a living world from a simple map image with just some tribe names.
It isn't easy to find the right atmosphere for coloring and banners, choosing the right names and choosing position on the map without there being accurate documents available.

I will make a detailed desigbn document with all info involved creating the scenario a later moment.

But back to EASY. Why was it easy? Well, one of the answers is that this is a quality game with a big Q.
I'm playing my own scenario as one of the tribes I had a story for in mind. The Batavi. A trade nation below Flevo Lacus (Current Flevomeer, IJsselmeer), that was one of the few nations that triggered an uprising or revolt from the Batavi against Roman occupation.
It's centered in the middle of the map. The description of them as one of the larger countries, with fewer citizen and good economics is accurate. Trick with this nation is to make trade lines around you as much as possible and remain in peace with the Roman empire and the Frisii. At the same time you, as a rich trade nation, have 3 gold mines in the middle of your country so the other German warrior tribes on the East are highly interested in them.

To show a part of how historical accurate some conflicts can be played out is as follows: The Batavi are threatned in the East by the Chamavii (how where in real suspected of expelling the Batavi). There was a mass migration at some point to the Texuandri area after war with the Chamavii, which happens many years later, so if the conditions are right and you conquer territory below, next to the Texuandri, you can simulate this ingame.

What makes the game rich and the scenario design easy, is that I, as a scenario creator, not had to write any scripts, or alter any advanced settings to make the AI players behavior logic.
The logic how the game is setup means that the Roman Empire for example start to build an historical accurate road netwerk automatically without having them to setup that way.
After 44 turns into my own scenario, with hundreds of cities and thousands of units (armies, resources etc) and 7.921 tiles (89 x 89) that needs turn by turn calculation, the game runs smooth on highest settings on my potato.
I simply encountered NOT A SINGLE issue yet.

All 16 added nations seems to adept to their enviroment and weight wars and diplomatic standings around them.
There are shipyards build on strategic positions and logic conf. and fed. are constructed by AI players.

I was experimenting with the "hard links" approach (described in the previous post) and it is not a good approach for couple of reasons:

• It requires more tools on both sides (creator and consumer)
• It cannot be simply "copied over" manually or even if it can, creator must know which files are hard links and which are not
• Hard links are basically references to the same file. Therefore creator will use all the files from the original mod (Which is correct), however once he updates any file in his mod folder, it also updates the original file in the original mod folder. The only way to prevent this is to delete the hard link file and copy it again. Unfortunately creator might forget to do this and starts editing the file straight away which can cause inconsistency in the original mod.

I will try to solve it a different way. Ideally there would be a proper "prototyping" implemented where creator specifies (in his AG mod file) what is the prototype for his mod and all the files excluding those which are located in his own mod folder will be taken from the prototype. This way players would be able to easily copy over their own mods without a danger to overwrite official mod.
I hope I will be able to push this into V4. If not, you can still use the previous working approach, I will just need to guide you how exactly to export your mod.

Btw. I wanted to help you a bit with the cows and I changed the texture, the 3D model and the presence of this model on the terrains (so they are mostly on grasslands and plains) in the mod file. I am also not a 3D designer nor texture artist;) I will send it all to you soon, you can have it as a part of your mod:)

Cablenexus, I am really happy that you havent encountered any major issues and also that the AI works correctly (even for such a big map). Honestly I was a bit worried about the size of the map:)

Thank you for all the work, the cows and for looking into it.

- As I understand correctly the changes made in the cows are made in the ancient_rome.ag mod file, not in the hollandv46 file, is that correct?

- Is there any change made in the hollandv46 scenario file I send to you? (you mentioned a bug the day I send it to you) or was this in the rome.ag file as well?

- The previous turn player reports I can't get rid of them. Do I have to do this in the hollandv46 file? I see some references in this file that connects to previous save files on my own HD. Are those the ones I have to get rid of?

- Can I safely continue to work on hollandv46 save file while waiting for Beta V4 ?

Cablenexus wrote:As I understand correctly the changes made in the cows are made in the ancient_rome.ag mod file, not in the hollandv46 file, is that correct?

The cows will not be part of the official ancient_rome mod. I will send you the the mesh and texture files and also tell you what to change in your own mod file to have it running. It is not a bad idea to have those cows directly in the ancient_rome mod but it would need to go through the 3D designer and also the texture artist.

Cablenexus wrote:Is there any change made in the hollandv46 scenario file I send to you? (you mentioned a bug the day I send it to you) or was this in the rome.ag file as well?

I didn't make any changes in your files. I tried to run your scenario bound to your own mod and there was a bug in the code (Which will be fixed in V4). I will tell you what to do to have it running this way (once V4 is available).

Cablenexus wrote:The previous turn player reports I can't get rid of them. Do I have to do this in the hollandv46 file? I see some references in this file that connects to previous save files on my own HD. Are those the ones I have to get rid of?

You need to edit your scenario file and remove all the <reports> elements inside the playermemento elements.

Cablenexus wrote:Can I safely continue to work on hollandv46 save file while waiting for Beta V4 ?

You can definitely continue on your scenario file and you can also experiment with changing ancient_rome.ag mod file, but you will need to repeat all the changes of ancient_rome.ag in your new mod file (once you have it).

- I have 3 nations ingame atm I did not modified. Pontus and two others. I wonder. Can they eventually show up as new nations emerge? How can I get rid of them (disable) them completely. They also show up as "dead" nations in the score graph.

Cablenexus wrote:- I have 3 nations ingame atm I did not modified. Pontus and two others. I wonder. Can they eventually show up as new nations emerge? How can I get rid of them (disable) them completely. They also show up as "dead" nations in the score graph.

Yes they can. You can remove them entirely from the scenario file but they have not removed from all the players where their ID is stated (winning conditions, state decisions, etc).

pavelk wrote:

Cablenexus wrote:- I have 3 nations ingame atm I did not modified. Pontus and two others. I wonder. Can they eventually show up as new nations emerge? How can I get rid of them (disable) them completely. They also show up as "dead" nations in the score graph.

Yes they can. You can remove them entirely from the scenario file but they have not removed from all the players where their ID is stated (winning conditions, state decisions, etc).

I think that it should work when you just remove the playermemento, however remove all the reports as well (in reports are also player Ids).

- I "played" the scenario from 50 BC till 1 AD and was not noticing any VERY weird AI behaviour yet. However I start my safe game now and I notice that none of the tribes used the "drain" command anytime. Even in the North where the Frisii are.
Of course I don't know the AI patters, I don't know if they needed those tiles anyway so probably this is all correct. But I notice it and so I report.

Cablenexus wrote:- I "played" the scenario from 50 BC till 1 AD and was not noticing any VERY weird AI behaviour yet. However I start my safe game now and I notice that none of the tribes used the "drain" command anytime. Even in the North where the Frisii are.
Of course I don't know the AI patters, I don't know if they needed those tiles anyway so probably this is all correct. But I notice it and so I report.

They do use it but only in case of lack of wood or food or when settlers have nothing else to do:)

- Not much to report. I was reading some articles about the period today. I experimented with portraits, but I'm not happy with them to show them yet.

- I think I can use the "unused" nations. I have 3. Maybe I divide East and West Frissi since they seperately plays a role in history. In that case there is coming another West-Frissi tribe. Frisii is now using two islands.

- I think also I add the Chatti, next to the Sicambri (lower South-East). Sicambri now uses two islands.

- I try to make the starting positions somewhat historical accurate. I have to think where to place the resources.

Early wake up because I had an idea for portraits in mind:

Cablenexus wrote:Early wake up because I had an idea for portraits in mind:

Not a bad idea at all! It might even give the game a very different feel.

Btw. with the functionality of your own mod, you can also tweak UI itself;)

pavelk wrote:

Cablenexus wrote:Early wake up because I had an idea for portraits in mind:

Not a bad idea at all! It might even give the game a very different feel.

Btw. with the functionality of your own mod, you can also tweak UI itself;)

Goodmorning,

Yeah, I found the UI file already But it's nice, I don't really see something to change now.

The portraits I had to do since those are different nations. I cannot make them in the same art style as the current portraits. But now they don't fit the other artwork ingame like the victory screen etc.
I will see how it turns out.