Slitherine

Thanks Borger for your general analysis !
I think it is not the time to discuss about the result of this game . It is only 1941 . No matter how bad situation of Allies , Axis won’t be able to guarrenty a minor victory at present .
Actually ,Joe made a great Bliz & got a great victory of France campaign . This victory gave him a golden opportunity to make a 1940 sealion in the first fair turn（this kind of sealion has the opportunity to launch 1941 babarosa in time ）. This should be the biggest advantage Axis could ever take in 1940-1941 . I don’t want to use UK to bleed Germans , but Germans came to bleed me ! I did nothing about aggressive after sealion since UK is too poor to do it . In Scotland I have try my best to defence , but Axis played with high effective & smart skills . The only thing I could do is retreat & hold & retreat, finally to Scapa !
But regarding to the Babarosa , the fair turns before bad weather in 1941 are always the happy hours of Axis , let’s discuss the success of Babarosa in spring of 1942 .

Morris wrote:I don’t want to use UK to bleed Germans , but Germans came to bleed me ! I did nothing about aggressive after sealion since UK is too poor to do it . In Scotland I have try my best to defence , but Axis played with high effective & smart skills . The only thing I could do is retreat & hold & retreat, finally to Scapa !

The July-August turns were the turning point in Scotland. I had retreated, but in July you moved a +1 defense corps forward. This gave me a chance to attack your best defensive unit from 3 sides, with no entrenchment. That kill gave me the initiative to resume the offensive. If you had kept your strong defensive units dug in where they were, it would have been more difficult for me. So trying to expand the beachhead worked against you in this case.

joerock22 wrote:

Morris wrote:I don’t want to use UK to bleed Germans , but Germans came to bleed me ! I did nothing about aggressive after sealion since UK is too poor to do it . In Scotland I have try my best to defence , but Axis played with high effective & smart skills . The only thing I could do is retreat & hold & retreat, finally to Scapa !

The July-August turns were the turning point in Scotland. I had retreated, but in July you moved a +1 defense corps forward. This gave me a chance to attack your best defensive unit from 3 sides, with no entrenchment. That kill gave me the initiative to resume the offensive. If you had kept your strong defensive units dug in where they were, it would have been more difficult for me. So trying to expand the beachhead worked against you in this case.

Yes , it was a stupid mistake . But I believe if you want to eliminate them , you will achive it by strong airsupport . Maybe will cost more pp or one more turn , but it won't change the present situation .

Joe probably didn't want to keep a strong airforce in England. He just wanted have enough air units to control the situation. He wanted the air units on the east front.

So if the UK forces are aggressive in Scotland then they "invite" the Axis to send more air units to England. Once the air units are there they can just stay for a few turns to clear up the nuisance.

I try to avoid activating battles in a front section until I'm prepared to actually fight there. It's ok to use hit and run to lure enemy units away from anoth front section, e. g. by sending amphs to the French coast line in 1942. If you land in France then you have thrown the gauntlet and must be prepared to fight there. If you can't stand up to the Germans then it's best to just delay the landing.

I think a key ability for the Allies player is PATIENCE. The main goal for the western Allies in 1941-1942 is to become a nuisance for the Germans without losing important battles. Hit the Axis where they don't have any forces. That means landing in areas like Corsica and Sardinia. Just try to drag Axis units away from an area where they are destroying Allied or Russian units.

Fighting from a beach head in Scotland is very hard as early as 1941 because it's not easy to disengage. I think Morris should have been satisfied with the Germans calling off the offensive in Scotland and just screening the remaining units there. That means the beach head would survive and there UK efficiency drop would not be significant. But when the beach head was reinforced then Joerock had to send reinforcements to deal with the threat. The end result was that the beachhead will be destroyed and the future invasion of England will become harder. So patience is a virtue for the Allied player.

Joe...when winter hits i would actually consider to retreat and give ground in the south instead of keeping the line. Your southern army group looks pretty weak and it is by far the hardest to defend properly during winter. Severe winter is about 5 turns and you can retreat 10 sqaures without loosing any units at all. The economic penalty is not that great either for you

Downside is that the recaptured russian cities might be harder to take again and it will probably take 2 turns to cath up to this position you are in now

Crazygunner1 wrote:Joe...when winter hits i would actually consider to retreat and give ground in the south instead of keeping the line. Your southern army group looks pretty weak and it is by far the hardest to defend properly during winter. Severe winter is about 5 turns and you can retreat 10 sqaures without loosing any units at all. The economic penalty is not that great either for you

Downside is that the recaptured russian cities might be harder to take again and it will probably take 2 turns to cath up to this position you are in now

Funny that you should say that...stay tuned for next turn.

Stauffenberg wrote:Joe probably didn't want to keep a strong airforce in England. He just wanted have enough air units to control the situation. He wanted the air units on the east front.

So if the UK forces are aggressive in Scotland then they "invite" the Axis to send more air units to England. Once the air units are there they can just stay for a few turns to clear up the nuisance.

I try to avoid activating battles in a front section until I'm prepared to actually fight there. It's ok to use hit and run to lure enemy units away from anoth front section, e. g. by sending amphs to the French coast line in 1942. If you land in France then you have thrown the gauntlet and must be prepared to fight there. If you can't stand up to the Germans then it's best to just delay the landing.

I think a key ability for the Allies player is PATIENCE. The main goal for the western Allies in 1941-1942 is to become a nuisance for the Germans without losing important battles. Hit the Axis where they don't have any forces. That means landing in areas like Corsica and Sardinia. Just try to drag Axis units away from an area where they are destroying Allied or Russian units.

Fighting from a beach head in Scotland is very hard as early as 1941 because it's not easy to disengage. I think Morris should have been satisfied with the Germans calling off the offensive in Scotland and just screening the remaining units there. That means the beach head would survive and there UK efficiency drop would not be significant. But when the beach head was reinforced then Joerock had to send reinforcements to deal with the threat. The end result was that the beachhead will be destroyed and the future invasion of England will become harder. So patience is a virtue for the Allied player.

Yes , Patience is very important not only for Allies but also for Axis ! I will improve it later ! Thanks for your lesson !

Crazygunner1 wrote:Joe...when winter hits i would actually consider to retreat and give ground in the south instead of keeping the line. Your southern army group looks pretty weak and it is by far the hardest to defend properly during winter. Severe winter is about 5 turns and you can retreat 10 sqaures without loosing any units at all. The economic penalty is not that great either for you

Downside is that the recaptured russian cities might be harder to take again and it will probably take 2 turns to cath up to this position you are in now

Good advice ! I had been taught a lesson by this strategy by Mr Crazig ! But I won't make the same mistake again.

Morris wrote:

Crazygunner1 wrote:Joe...when winter hits i would actually consider to retreat and give ground in the south instead of keeping the line. Your southern army group looks pretty weak and it is by far the hardest to defend properly during winter. Severe winter is about 5 turns and you can retreat 10 sqaures without loosing any units at all. The economic penalty is not that great either for you

Downside is that the recaptured russian cities might be harder to take again and it will probably take 2 turns to cath up to this position you are in now

Good advice ! I had been taught a lesson by this strategy by Mr Crazig ! But I won't make the same mistake again.

Oh, I see. So I have Crazyg to thank in part for my current predicament? Well, the weather favored Morris as well. As you can see below, that fair turn in October killed me. So I could not use the gradual retreat strategy Crazyg suggested. And I would definitely have used it; it is a favorite of mine as well for surviving severe winter.

Morris, would you have advanced your army later if not for that game against Crazyg?

Turn 40 – October 20, 1941

The weather is fair across the board, which is good for me in Britain but very bad for me in Russia. You’ll see why…

England





USSR North



USSR South

Joe...this doesnt look bad, you got plenty of space between you and the red army. If there is not a fair weather turn in november then you should be able to keep the distance between you and the red army. You will probably be able to keep Kiev and Kherson as well. Mount a defense line there and if Morris get´s too offensive you can punish him out on the open field during summer. You also got plenty of turns to rail in your heavy units in order to compensate for the big red army in the south for action later...

joerock22 wrote:

Morris wrote:

Crazygunner1 wrote:Joe...when winter hits i would actually consider to retreat and give ground in the south instead of keeping the line. Your southern army group looks pretty weak and it is by far the hardest to defend properly during winter. Severe winter is about 5 turns and you can retreat 10 sqaures without loosing any units at all. The economic penalty is not that great either for you

Downside is that the recaptured russian cities might be harder to take again and it will probably take 2 turns to cath up to this position you are in now

Good advice ! I had been taught a lesson by this strategy by Mr Crazig ! But I won't make the same mistake again.

Oh, I see. So I have Crazyg to thank in part for my current predicament? Well, the weather favored Morris as well. As you can see below, that fair turn in October killed me. So I could not use the gradual retreat strategy Crazyg suggested. And I would definitely have used it; it is a favorite of mine as well for surviving severe winter.

Morris, would you have advanced your army later if not for that game against Crazyg?

Maybe ,god knows !but actually I do not understand why the fair turn in Oct was a bad luck for you . Whatever the turn's weather was , I would move forward my troops since I found your main body were in the north around Moscow. We have to do Sth to use the 1941 severe winter ! So on the contrary,I thought the weather was your friend . I did hope the first turn of Nov is severe winter ! But when I found the Oct's fair turn , my dream was broken.it gave you more time to upgrade & recover your effectiveness !

Morris wrote:Maybe ,god knows !but actually I do not understand why the fair turn in Oct was a bad luck for you . Whatever the turn's weather was , I would move forward my troops since I found your main body were in the north around Moscow. We have to do Sth to use the 1941 severe winter ! So on the contrary,I thought the weather was your friend . I did hope the first turn of Nov is severe winter ! But when I found the Oct's fair turn , my dream was broken.it gave you more time to upgrade & recover your effectiveness !

The fair weather in October gave your army a great chance to attack. If I had stayed where I was, you would have slaughtered me. I had to retreat 4+ hexes to escape. If the weather had been bad, I would only have had to retreat 2 hexes or so.

It was a 50/50 shot and you won. Not really "bad luck" for me, but the fair turn did help you.

joerock22 wrote:

Morris wrote:Maybe ,god knows !but actually I do not understand why the fair turn in Oct was a bad luck for you . Whatever the turn's weather was , I would move forward my troops since I found your main body were in the north around Moscow. We have to do Sth to use the 1941 severe winter ! So on the contrary,I thought the weather was your friend . I did hope the first turn of Nov is severe winter ! But when I found the Oct's fair turn , my dream was broken.it gave you more time to upgrade & recover your effectiveness !

The fair weather in October gave your army a great chance to attack. If I had stayed where I was, you would have slaughtered me. I had to retreat 4+ hexes to escape. If the weather had been bad, I would only have had to retreat 2 hexes or so.

It was a 50/50 shot and you won. Not really "bad luck" for me, but the fair turn did help you.

I see ! Maybe I was too greedy . As I said you did the retreat at almost the perfect time !& it is still too early to say who will win . Actually , 1941 severe winter is always the most miserable time of Axis !

Morris wrote:I see ! Maybe I was too greedy . As I said you did the retreat at almost the perfect time !& it is still too early to say who will win . Actually , 1941 severe winter is always the most miserable time of Axis !

Yes, it usually is.

Morris is on holiday, so the game and this AAR will be put on hold until next week sometime. Enjoy your vacation!

joerock22 wrote:

Morris wrote:I see ! Maybe I was too greedy . As I said you did the retreat at almost the perfect time !& it is still too early to say who will win . Actually , 1941 severe winter is always the most miserable time of Axis !

Yes, it usually is.

Morris is on holiday, so the game and this AAR will be put on hold until next week sometime. Enjoy your vacation!

Thanks joe !
Sorry for the delay ! I will try to be back earlier !

Morris wrote:Thanks joe !
Sorry for the delay ! I will try to be back earlier !

No problem. Usually it is me who causes the delays.

Hi everyone : I am back & the AAR will continue soon .

Turn 41 – November 9, 1941

A HUGE sigh of relief! The weather is mud in central Europe and winter in the east. If the Russians had gotten another turn of fair weather, I would’ve been in major trouble. It was a very low probability (only 10%), but still I was nervous. I will still have to dodge another November turn, but this makes me feel a lot better.

It appears I’ve managed to avoid disaster; last turn Axis forces pulled back just far enough. The Soviets made a minor breakthrough in the far south and killed an Italian infantry, plus isolated a Romanian corps that is likely to be killed. But that is a very small price to pay for the salvation of an entire army! Now the Axis can retreat more slowly until I reach a position from which I am comfortable mounting a defensive stand.

The Germans get some nice research upgrades this turn: anti-tank guns Lv. 1, dog fight Lv. 2, and industry Lv. 3. The AT guns are just in time for winter upgrades; my infantry in the east can receive a +1 defense and +1 AT at the same time. The fighters can use dog fight lv. 2 while the weather is winter, since they will get 4 air attack instead of 3. And the industry obviously helps a lot with PP production. Research is a little slower than in a normal game due to my early aggression, but it is coming along nicely now.

No severe winter this turn (only 10% chance in November). I expect it to hit in December and will plan accordingly.

England – Morris’s transport and escorts sails off in a completely different direction. He keeps doing that! But this time I am not sad to see the RN go.

North – situation stable, upgraded most of my infantry for winter. I do not expect much combat in this sector; my troops have excellent defensive positions and Morris is likely to focus all his effort in the south.

USSR South

Just keep retreating in the south, try and keep out of contact as much as possible!!! Perhaps it is even better to sacrifice one unit in order to keep out of way totally so he can't use the retreating unit to advance forward.