Slitherine

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:54 pm**

Just to let everyone know we are working on v2 anarchy rules now after a week of play testing. We have tried to simplify things a bit and there are some new modifiers that should add a bit more nuance and depth to the gameplay. It won't be too long.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 8:59 pm**

Nosy_Rat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 10:41 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 03, 2020 5:28 pm ok I can consider a longer cavalry fallback instead. Do you have other ideas for fixing ZoC traps of cavalry by cheap infantry? assuming you think it is a problem that is? I'm not sure though that the current mod changes feel totally artificial.
I think that cavalry not being able to break a contact with ZoCing infantry is a problem, yes.
Being able to deactivate secondary ZoCs is kinda ok, as it is basically less riskier version of vanilla charge with blocked fallback shenanigans, but I'm afraid it would make Andalusia-style cheap cavalry spam even stronger than it is right now.
What I don't like is reducing infantry AP after being charged.

ok I've implemented this with fallback lengths (in tiles) of 3 for straight and 2 for diagonal fallbacks, and subsequently removed the ap loss imposed on infantry from cav charges (retaining secondary zoc loss). Should regular fallbacks from combat be lengthened to stay consistent with the manually selected fallbacks, or just keep those the same?

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:42 pm**

Cunningcairn wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:02 pm
rbodleyscott wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:55 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 12:29 pm

no, he hasn't, and he isn't going to. he's just a troll.
Moderator:

This is a public forum. If you want to discuss your mod secretly, with only true believers allowed to participate, do it elsewhere.

Meanwhile, hurling personal insults in this forum is a sacking offence, so be careful.
Errr there are people posting on this thread that have said exactly the same as Schweetness and worse and have had not received any warning from the moderator. Schweetness and Pete are doing something positive to improve the game without reward. There are a handful of players that are opposing this and noticeably a high percentage of them don't even play MP let alone the digital league. Schweetness and Pete are not the ones being rude. In my world the vast majority of players I have played are unhappy with the frequency of game changing random events. I know this because of their statements when it happens to them when we play.

thanks

hopefully we can make a mod that improves some peoples' experience with the game.

and to be clear, I value everyone's feedback and have incorporated suggestions from even the most skeptical observers, including snugglebunnies, nosy_rat and thegraymouser. Just because things sometimes get heated doesn't mean the discussion is not productive. In fact, heated and angry people take more time to explain their positions and help the mod grow, so thank you for your passionate investment in the mod project to all of those who have commented.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 pm**

Then why have you not incorporated my + POA for units (due to high elan) that Anarchy Charge? Do I NEED TO YELL AND STAMP MT FEET?

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:53 pm**

desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 pm Then why have you not incorporated my + POA for units (due to high elan) that Anarchy Charge? Do I NEED TO YELL AND STAMP MT FEET?

yes, now I will incorporate it lol

actually I'm not sure how but I'll look into it because it is a decent idea

I do worry though that it could lead to people intentionally leading units uncommanded to charge while in charge range in the hope that they can get the anarchy charge bonus, not sure which would be the lesser of two evils though.

also reminds me I forgot about changing the deep impact foot poa, maybe I should up that from 10 to 20 or 25 points to account for the fact that those units anarchy a lot more now

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:08 pm**

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:53 pm
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 pm Then why have you not incorporated my + POA for units (due to high elan) that Anarchy Charge? Do I NEED TO YELL AND STAMP MT FEET?
yes, now I will incorporate it lol

actually I'm not sure how but I'll look into it because it is a decent idea

I do worry though that it could lead to people intentionally leading units uncommanded to charge while in charge range in the hope that they can get the anarchy charge bonus, not sure which would be the lesser of two evils though.

also reminds me I forgot about changing the deep impact foot poa, maybe I should up that from 10 to 20 or 25 points to account for the fact that those units anarchy a lot more now

When/How does the possible Anarchy Charge occur? Immediately when it becomes the players turn or do they need to select the unit? Is it possible for players to wait for a possible Anarchy charge and if not then charge themselves? This is of course why I also suggested a possibility of Anarchy Charging from 1-3 hexes out, to make it true Anarchy and to take away some of the gameyness.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm**

desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:08 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:53 pm
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:50 pm Then why have you not incorporated my + POA for units (due to high elan) that Anarchy Charge? Do I NEED TO YELL AND STAMP MT FEET?
yes, now I will incorporate it lol

actually I'm not sure how but I'll look into it because it is a decent idea

I do worry though that it could lead to people intentionally leading units uncommanded to charge while in charge range in the hope that they can get the anarchy charge bonus, not sure which would be the lesser of two evils though.

also reminds me I forgot about changing the deep impact foot poa, maybe I should up that from 10 to 20 or 25 points to account for the fact that those units anarchy a lot more now
When/How does the possible Anarchy Charge occur? Immediately when it becomes the players turn or do they need to select the unit? Is it possible for players to wait for a possible Anarchy charge and if not then charge themselves? This is of course why I also suggested a possibility of Anarchy Charging from 1-3 hexes out, to make it true Anarchy and to take away some of the gameyness.

so if you move a unit without charging while within charge range, it takes a test to anarchy charge. If you leave a unit in place without moving it while within charge range then it will test to anarchy at the end turn.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:17 pm**

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:08 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 9:53 pm

yes, now I will incorporate it lol

actually I'm not sure how but I'll look into it because it is a decent idea

I do worry though that it could lead to people intentionally leading units uncommanded to charge while in charge range in the hope that they can get the anarchy charge bonus, not sure which would be the lesser of two evils though.

also reminds me I forgot about changing the deep impact foot poa, maybe I should up that from 10 to 20 or 25 points to account for the fact that those units anarchy a lot more now
When/How does the possible Anarchy Charge occur? Immediately when it becomes the players turn or do they need to select the unit? Is it possible for players to wait for a possible Anarchy charge and if not then charge themselves? This is of course why I also suggested a possibility of Anarchy Charging from 1-3 hexes out, to make it true Anarchy and to take away some of the gameyness.
so if you move a unit without charging while within charge range, it takes a test to anarchy charge. If you leave a unit in place without moving it while within charge range then it will test to anarchy at the end turn.

Then if the player tries to game the system in hopes of getting a positive POA for an Anarchy charge they may end up with their unit doing nothing - quite a risk in my book.

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:20 pm**

desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:17 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:08 pm

When/How does the possible Anarchy Charge occur? Immediately when it becomes the players turn or do they need to select the unit? Is it possible for players to wait for a possible Anarchy charge and if not then charge themselves? This is of course why I also suggested a possibility of Anarchy Charging from 1-3 hexes out, to make it true Anarchy and to take away some of the gameyness.
so if you move a unit without charging while within charge range, it takes a test to anarchy charge. If you leave a unit in place without moving it while within charge range then it will test to anarchy at the end turn.
Then if the player tries to game the system in hopes of getting a positive POA for an Anarchy charge they may end up with their unit doing nothing - quite a risk in my book.

fair, and would you increase deep impact as well or leave that aside for now?

Posted: **Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:31 pm**

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:20 pm
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:17 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:15 pm

so if you move a unit without charging while within charge range, it takes a test to anarchy charge. If you leave a unit in place without moving it while within charge range then it will test to anarchy at the end turn.
Then if the player tries to game the system in hopes of getting a positive POA for an Anarchy charge they may end up with their unit doing nothing - quite a risk in my book.
fair, and would you increase deep impact as well or leave that aside for now?

The deep impact bonus for Warbands would be great in my opinion, and probably historically accurate with their pursuit tendencies, but a lot more units are involved in possible anarchy then I originally thought would be. I think this would mollify some of Athos' concerns about Warbands being "picked on" in a negative manner. This would make them very formidable in Anarchy Mode.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:23 am**

desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:31 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:20 pm
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:17 pm

Then if the player tries to game the system in hopes of getting a positive POA for an Anarchy charge they may end up with their unit doing nothing - quite a risk in my book.
fair, and would you increase deep impact as well or leave that aside for now?
The deep impact bonus for Warbands would be great in my opinion, and probably historically accurate with their pursuit tendencies, but a lot more units are involved in possible anarchy then I originally thought would be. I think this would mollify some of Athos' concerns about Warbands being "picked on" in a negative manner. This would make them very formidable in Anarchy Mode.

i've tested a few games with warbands having high anarchy, and an extra +10 poa on impact for anarchy charges, and 10 more than vanilla for deep impact foot. So, that's 230 impact from a warband anarchy charging. it is certainly a noticeable buff, not sure if too much. Perhaps deep impact foot should be 15 and the anarchy buff 5 for 220?

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 7:35 pm**

Just one little idea that has a chance of making its way into the mod at some stage is a slight buff to scythed chariots. I don't think many people pick them because they cost 48 points. At the moment they disperse if they have not defeated the unit they are in contact with after one impact and one melee combat. That will still be the case unless they have caused a cohesion drop to the enemy unit. In those circumstances they will continue to melee with the enemy unit in the normal way. This change represents those occasions when the scythed chariots are able to penetrate into the enemy formation. This is not a big change as you can usually only pick one scythed chariot unit, but it might encourage a few more players to give them a try. Nothing else is changed to the unit apart from this.

Posted: **Sat Jun 06, 2020 9:09 pm**

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 06, 2020 3:23 am
desicat wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:31 pm
Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 10:20 pm

fair, and would you increase deep impact as well or leave that aside for now?
The deep impact bonus for Warbands would be great in my opinion, and probably historically accurate with their pursuit tendencies, but a lot more units are involved in possible anarchy then I originally thought would be. I think this would mollify some of Athos' concerns about Warbands being "picked on" in a negative manner. This would make them very formidable in Anarchy Mode.
i've tested a few games with warbands having high anarchy, and an extra +10 poa on impact for anarchy charges, and 10 more than vanilla for deep impact foot. So, that's 230 impact from a warband anarchy charging. it is certainly a noticeable buff, not sure if too much. Perhaps deep impact foot should be 15 and the anarchy buff 5 for 220?

I am more in favor of the elan POA staying significant, it will help all units Anarchy charging and allow it to be a positive offset to the possible loss of control.

Happy to see Scythed Chariots get some attention. No point in having an medium expensive unit that no one will ever select.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:52 pm**

How do you install the mod for a informatician noob like me ?

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:57 pm**

Sennacherib wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 4:52 pm How do you install the mod for a informatician noob like me ?

You need to Extract it to Documents - My Games - FieldOfGlory2 - CAMPAIGNS for single player. Copy and paste it into your MULTIPLAYER folder to play against someone else. An updated version is coming very soon now.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 5:06 pm**

Ok will wait for the New one

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:22 pm**

ok here's the new v1.1:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5g9f7g3mdrvy ... Xiv3a?dl=0

change list:

1) reduce anarchy by 20 for units with general
2) increase anarchy for whole army by 10 if cinc is dead or routed
3) changed squads file anarchy base values to -15, 0, 5, 25, and 45 (these are mostly a lot higher for the high anarchy units)
4) added anarchy roll info to combat log
5) added refuse orders roll info to combat log *definitely worth checking the combat log now to learn about the anarchy/refuse stuff if that is not something you normally turn on
6) changed double drop to only happen if at significant combat disadvantage (not unit strength below 75% anymore) *not well tested
7) display base anarchy rating in ui for unit
8 ) global anarchy modifier, increases anarchy 2% per instance of anarchy, across the whole game, up to 10%
9) disrupted units will not anarchy charge steady enemies
10) changed opportunity charge chance from pursuit to 100% if valid target is ahead within 45 degrees *needs testing, pretty large change to pursuits
11) increase charge chance anarchy modifier to 25% for outside command range
12) added charge tooltip explaining secondary zoc loss
13) make pursuits by cav if enemies adjacent and to the front stop only if one of those enemies are also cav and now only within 45 and not 90 degrees of front
14) increase infantry combat resolution time by decreasing melee casualties (not impact) between non light inf down 20% *needs testing to see if too much/not enough slowing down of inf melee
15) got rid of imposed ap loss with cav charges on inf, and instead now increasing cav fallback to 3 squares
16) chance refuse charge if disrupted flat 25%
17) +10 to impact POA if anarchy charging
18) extra +10 (so +20 total) to deep impact POA (basically warband impact)
19) cav refuse orders chance now only vs steady spears in the front, not spears in general
20) increase from 25% to 50% chance to refuse charge for light cav against non light cav (40% if rear attack, and still 0% if fragmented)
21) increase chance to test to rally at all from broken from 20 to 30 out of 100 (but it's still only within command radius/in units with general)

*thanks to snugglebunnies, nosy_rat, desicat and thegreymouser for making contributions in the forum thread that ended up in the mod, and of course to Pete for thorough testing, feedback and direction

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:38 pm**

There is a lot to like here. Having looked through the Vanilla code you have really done Yeoman's work as working in these changes was not easy to do - Bravo.

Posted: **Sun Jun 07, 2020 11:29 pm**

Schweetness101 wrote: ↑Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:22 pm ok here's the new v1.1:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5g9f7g3mdrvy ... Xiv3a?dl=0

change list:

1) reduce anarchy by 20 for units with general
2) increase anarchy for whole army by 10 if cinc is dead or routed
3) changed squads file anarchy base values to -15, 0, 5, 25, and 45 (these are mostly a lot higher for the high anarchy units)
4) added anarchy roll info to combat log
5) added refuse orders roll info to combat log *definitely worth checking the combat log now to learn about the anarchy/refuse stuff if that is not something you normally turn on
6) changed double drop to only happen if at significant combat disadvantage (not unit strength below 75% anymore) *not well tested
7) display base anarchy rating in ui for unit
8 ) global anarchy modifier, increases anarchy 2% per instance of anarchy, across the whole game, up to 10%
9) disrupted units will not anarchy charge steady enemies
10) changed opportunity charge chance from pursuit to 100% if valid target is ahead within 45 degrees *needs testing, pretty large change to pursuits
11) increase charge chance anarchy modifier to 25% for outside command range
12) added charge tooltip explaining secondary zoc loss
13) make pursuits by cav if enemies adjacent and to the front stop only if one of those enemies are also cav and now only within 45 and not 90 degrees of front
14) increase infantry combat resolution time by decreasing melee casualties (not impact) between non light inf down 20% *needs testing to see if too much/not enough slowing down of inf melee
15) got rid of imposed ap loss with cav charges on inf, and instead now increasing cav fallback to 3 squares
16) chance refuse charge if disrupted flat 25%
17) +10 to impact POA if anarchy charging
18) extra +10 (so +20 total) to deep impact POA (basically warband impact)
19) cav refuse orders chance now only vs steady spears in the front, not spears in general
20) increase from 25% to 50% chance to refuse charge for light cav against non light cav (40% if rear attack, and still 0% if fragmented)
21) increase chance to test to rally at all from broken from 20 to 30 out of 100 (but it's still only within command radius/in units with general)

*thanks to snugglebunnies, nosy_rat, desicat and thegreymouser for making contributions in the forum thread that ended up in the mod, and of course to Pete for thorough testing, feedback and direction

Well done to you and all those that helped. I look forward to trying it.

Posted: **Mon Jun 08, 2020 10:24 am**

Awesome work guys, bravo for putting so many efforts into this, the result is really pleasant !

Slitherine

Alternative Gameplay Mod v1.3

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