Slitherine

"Choice for the Lancastrian player: will you defend the crossing or withdraw? "

How does that work and what are the consequences - 5 points to the opposition?, any pursuit?

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:03 pm "Choice for the Lancastrian player: will you defend the crossing or withdraw? "

How does that work and what are the consequences - 5 points to the opposition?, any pursuit?

Apologies if that is a bit obtuse. My question is "How does the option to withdraw work and what are the consequences of a Lancastrian withdrawal?"

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:15 pm

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:03 pm "Choice for the Lancastrian player: will you defend the crossing or withdraw? "

How does that work and what are the consequences - 5 points to the opposition?, any pursuit?

Apologies if that is a bit obtuse. My question is "How does the option to withdraw work and what are the consequences of a Lancastrian withdrawal?"

Nothing. Just move on to Towton. No points scored.

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:32 pm

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:15 pm

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Sat Jan 07, 2023 7:03 pm "Choice for the Lancastrian player: will you defend the crossing or withdraw? "

How does that work and what are the consequences - 5 points to the opposition?, any pursuit?

Apologies if that is a bit obtuse. My question is "How does the option to withdraw work and what are the consequences of a Lancastrian withdrawal?"

Nothing. Just move on to Towton. No points scored.

Thanks Pete.

Given Pete's reply, fun though it would be to have some cavalry (although they contributed only casualties at Blore Heath), I think I shall withdraw from Ferrybridge. The Lancastrians cannot afford to go into Towton with just one general, two will be enough of a problem as a missing general will be more important at that battle than they were at Second St Albans.

To episode 12!

OK, we'll keep the same players as CO's and move on to...

EPISODE TWELVE 1461: TOWTON

The biggest battle of the Wars of the Roses takes place on Palm Sunday in a snowstorm. Margaret of Anjou and Prince Edward remain at York.

Towton (March 1461)

Lancastrians – choose 3 commanders, one must be the royal character, Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, if he is still available, otherwise another royal character must be chosen.

Yorkists – choose 3 commanders, one must be the royal character Edward Plantagenet, Earl of March if he is still available, otherwise another royal character must be chosen.

IMPORTANT: outcomes depend on which faction controls the Crown at the start.


b) Outcomes if Henry VI was a prisoner of the Yorkists)

1) Draw/Lancastrian victory - all surviving Yorkists flee into exile. Go to episode 15.

2) Yorkist victory – all surviving Lancastrians flee into exile. Succession event. Yorkists crown their leading royal candidate as king. Henry VI is deposed and imprisoned in the Tower of London. Go to episode 13.

The battle of Towton is set up. I will send the password by PM.

The Lancastrians have the only two commanders available to them C in C will be Edmund Beaufort and the sub general will be Jasper Tudor (as at 2nd St Albans). Third general will be marching to the rear with his unit.

Good Luck and have fun.

Yorkist commanders for Towton will be historical, except for Warwick:

CinC: Edward IV

Lord Fauconberg
John Mowbrey Duke of Norfolk

It's Palm Sunday in Yorkshire, the snow is falling and so are the Yorkist arrows carried on the wind. I survey my Lancastrian army standing not a mere step (or so it appears) from their foes. I look for my generals one of whom is to march to the rear (good luck with that with all the troops surging forward from behind), but what is that I see? One C in C check (safely in the rear rank). Two sub generals check, but hang on there is a third sub general. Surely the forum said three Lancastrian generals, it does as does the campaign text. Is this an error?

Currently the Lancastrians have neither moved nor fired. Are two Lancastrian generals to move to the rear (which would seem to deprive them of a unit more than they should lose plus the remaining units of that command suffer movement and cohesion disadvantages)? Or should only one unit withdraw (which leaves one Lancastrian unit with a 50 POA bonus plus the cohesion and movement bonuses of a general)?

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:10 pm It's Palm Sunday in Yorkshire, the snow is falling and so are the Yorkist arrows carried on the wind. I survey my Lancastrian army standing not a mere step (or so it appears) from their foes. I look for my generals one of whom is to march to the rear (good luck with that with all the troops surging forward from behind), but what is that I see? One C in C check (safely in the rear rank). Two sub generals check, but hang on there is a third sub general. Surely the forum said three Lancastrian generals, it does as does the campaign text. Is this an error?

Currently the Lancastrians have neither moved nor fired. Are two Lancastrian generals to move to the rear (which would seem to deprive them of a unit more than they should lose plus the remaining units of that command suffer movement and cohesion disadvantages)? Or should only one unit withdraw (which leaves one Lancastrian unit with a 50 POA bonus plus the cohesion and movement bonuses of a general)?

Yes, sorry, it is an error in the WOTR text campaign, not in the scenario. I will correct it now. Karvon will need to adjudicate. My intention in the rules is that the Lancastrians only field the number of commanders that they can take from their roster, so that would mean just 2 commanders in this instance. In this particular campaign the Lancastrians are facing a severe crisis of leadership because they have lost 8 leaders already.

P.S. I suggest that the Lancastrians just drop one leader this time as I have made an error in the campaign.

Let's go with Pete's suggestion.

Karvon

I will do that. I will nominate one of the sub generals as an "unnamed" leader. There are currently three Yorkist generals on the field but I assume the fourth will arrive with reinforcements (that would have been Norfolk in real life). Maybe edb1815 would also like to nominate one of his generals as an "unnamed" leader, in case any fall in combat. Alternatively we could just assume the first Yorkist general to fall is not one of the named leaders.

Corrected text for Towton . . .

Towton (March 1461)
Lancastrians – choose 4 commanders, one must be the royal character, Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, if he is still available, otherwise another royal character must be chosen. Yorkists – choose 4 commanders, one must be the royal character Edward Plantagenet, Earl of March if he is still available, otherwise another royal character must be chosen.

Any news from Towton?

A slow grind as billman melees with billman. We are 8 turns in and the score is 18-19 to one of us. Neither of us feels particularly confident of victory. The melees started from the beginning as standing still as the Lancastrians and being slaughtered by arrow fire seemed a bad idea. I hoped to make some progress before the reinforcements arrived but they are about to enter the fray soon so that didn't work. we have reached the point where some the troops are autobreaking. I may have made some progress on my right flank but as the Yorkists can set up a second line on the hill behind I am not sure that will give me much advantage. Meanwhile my left looks very precarious as the fresh Yorkist troops will enter the fray there.

So far all the commanders are alive (and well?).

Turn 10 update. Both sides have made progress on their right. Casualties are high and pursuits seem unlikely for either side.

Update from the field of Towton. Norfolk's arrival did not have a major impact on the battle. The Yorkist center has collapsed with timely assistance from the mounted troops arriving on the flank. Lord Falconberg has fallen in battle as the end is nigh for the Yorkist army.

The Battle of Towton

The Battle ended on turn 14 with a marginal Lancastrian victory 65- 46. Lord Fauconberg (Yorkist) fell towards the end of the battle.

With the two front lines very close at the start of the battle and with the Yorkist archery aided by the wind in their backs, as the Lancastrian commander I felt that I had no choice but to begin hand to hand combat as soon as possible. Then feed as many of my second and third rank troops into the fight swiftly. I was able to get around the flank of the Yorkist line on my right and that was as subtle as my tactics got. On my left I found I was outnumbered and outflanked particularly when Norfolk arrived in that sector of the battlefield with the Yorkist reinforcements. I felt the the key moment was on turn 12 when a chain rout saw 3 Yorkists units flee the centre of the position allowing the Lancastrians to start flanking Yorkist units to both the left and right of the breakthrough.

Towton is a tough battle, which appears to be a toe to toe melee slugfest, with all the randomness that brings. I shall have to give it a go from the Yorkist viewpoint. However, having fought two successive major battles in the campaign I am looking forward to giving my nerves a rest whilst one of my fellow Lancastrians takes command for the next battle. Let’s see if we can make it through to 1469 when some new commanders become available it is not much fun having your one of best units sit out the fight. Which raises the point that had another Lancastrian MAA sat out Towton, as arguably it should have, would this have gone the other way?

Well played by my opponent.

Both players appreciated the snow by the way!

We need to wait for Karvon to see who is playing next, but I'll just post up the next episode . . .

EPISODE FIFTEEN 1465: YORK
A Yorkist army lands in Lincolnshire and moves towards York.
Yorkist rebellion battle (June 1465)
Note: This is a small-sized "skirmish" battle with "pot luck" terrain, not a scenario battle.
Outcomes
1) Draw/Lancastrian victory – the Lancastrian king is secure on throne and rules until his death in 1483. Go to episode 21.
2) Yorkist victory – Go to episode 16.

Towton is a pivotal battle in the campaign and a Lancastrian victory there has really turned things around. Episode 15 is a rebellion battle (and so is Episode 16). The Yorkists now need to win both Episode 15 and 16 to get the campaign back on its historical track. Otherwise, we will shoot forward to 1483.

Sorry guys, been a bit hectic here as kids are home from school due to a flue outbreak. I'll post info when I get up in the morning about 10 hrs from now.

Karvon

OK, I did the randomizing; I'll post the current scores tomorrow.

Yorkest angusosborne
Lancastrian Doyley50

Karvon