Slitherine

Thanks for the quick answer!
It's funny, that a player fights hard to make circumstances more difficult, but still the gameplay refreshing new to me! Because I did not upgrade the Italians - because as I understood, what you said, after the armictice, all Italian units will dissappear and other ones will be available after - I have a lot of prestige (about 2000), what is a total new feeling for me. Sure, with the Allied airpower growing, it will later much more harder, but without the stress to run for the British objectives in the Far East and England, I feel a lot more comfortable.
I still feel terrible the lack of the in the earlier games existing fighters: the 2 extra core fighter and the missing Italian fighters, directed from the Mediterrean to the eastarn front.
I try to play as much historical, as possible, so I left many (mostly Romanian and Italian... - but a few Germans too) units perish at the Stalingrad and Don area. Plus I had other - not planned - casualties too, so in some far, the weakening of the Axis power is also simulated.

- The lower fuel capability of the fighters brought also a different gameplay too: it has to be more monitored, how to use them, plus their activities are now also limited.
- I like the style you placed the mines in the Atlantic. Since they do not attack, but still they make a lot of trouble this way. Not just blocking, but also "telling" the location of my units next to them.

McGuba wrote:They have to take not only the city of Kursk, but the few hexes to the West of it. I think a 2 hex radius west of Kursk has to contain at least 2-3 Soviet ground units. And it happens not early 1943 but a bit later, between May-June, I think, if the previous conditions are met. I think it happens from turn 45, or something like that.

Concerning Malta and Gibraltar it is really a matter of patience. If I remember right also fighter planes can land a hit on the fortress. And I guess their chance to hit is not much more worse than the chance for a tactical bomber to hit. Bombarding these fortresses with ship cannons (I even tried dived up submarines - many of them) was a waste of time and resources in my game.

I took malta by reducing with strat bombers then surrounding and bombarding with battleships and attacking with tactical bombers. I could only do that because i neglected the eastern med. It is very resource consuming one of the biggest problems is it continually spawns occasional fighters. It still took me untill about turn 30 just before torch. I was a bit perturbed when reduced to 1-1 out of 10 strength and surrounded by sea and surrounded by air to consequtive stukas had no effect! but it did fall next turn.

I'm doing the full campaign so that i can bring additional forces (and prestige) into Barbarosa. I just finished the France scenario, which was quite a grueling one due the limited space and number of units (plus the mud). It reminds me of tetris.

Not the most fun scenario, but worth doing just for the prestige. My units are gaining experience much slower now that i'm on Field Marshal. The difference is already noticeable and forces me put in extra thought regarding green vs experienced replacements.

I always played the Barbarossa scenario without importing a core. You start with around 3000 prestige and after 7 or 8 rounds (some foreign forces are leaving the Axis => slots become free) there is a good possibility to spend the prestige and buy additional units that fit to the current strategy.

Why are you playing on Field Marshal level now, JimmyC?

If you play through the earlier scenarios, you can start Barbarossa with about 2,000+ extra prestige. You also get to bring 7 or so extra experienced units (in my case mostly fighters and tanks). I suspect that is why i did so well in the Barbarossa scenario during my play through, compared to your first play through. Uhu’s strategy thread for Battlefield Europe gave me a lot of useful tips before i started.

In v1.5 i played General and got a DV, so I decided to play v1.6 on Field Marshal to make it a bit harder. I also decided on a very different strategy as i am interested to see the Allied landings in Italy as well as Normandy. So I will abandon the Middle East and instead focus on Russia. Instead of rushing Moscow, I will head for Stalingrad and the oil fields. Once I take those, I will roll up North to gain complete control of Europe. I figure with the extra units from North Africa, I should hopefully be able to hold the long frontline in the South during the Russian winter counterattacks.

And just for fun, I will try capturing and holding Iceland to use as a base for harassing the shipping convoys. I honestly don’t think its worth doing this tactically as it occupies units that could be better used elsewhere, but it seems like it could be fun to try and will give me something to do with my surface fleet, which would otherwise be unoccupied.

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bcnkor2 wrote:flag

Very nice!

Further experiences and summary of v 1.6:

- I played historical until Kursk. After that, I got free hands. Except Sicily, which I let captured (although, with all my saved Italian forces and ships, I could easy hold out). Kursk was mostly an easy task, because I let the town captured before and the trench circles built, but still I weakened the attacking force in the meantime, that there was about 40% of the Soviet forces, as there has to be in historical situation.

1., I did not pay enough attention to build up at least a minimal defense force in France, so the Allied advanced like knife in the butter. Plus Market Garden succeed also partly, while I'm im panic created some defense forces, which where then quickly defeated and I just took heavy losses in prestige for almost nothing. I took Lipetsk too, and tried to defend with Voronezh together, but it was again a huge fault, because the Soviets sent there strong forces, which than made big losses to my defenders. At the and, these forces were defeated, but it is much more useful to hold Voronezh and guard the rest of the bridges with some AT assets ant just destroy most units, which dare to com trough the river.
So, while I could defeat the Soviet Union, and hold the Gothic line in Italy, I could not retake all of the German objectives, and therefore the end result was a LOSS.
Summary: we have to build at least a mediocre defense power in France, because there is not enough time, while you defeat the Soviets, to hold out long enough in France. Plus if you cannot hold out, you cannot use any of the V1, V2's, as in my cause was.

2., This time I built a stronger defense force in France, but made a lot of faults in Russia, therefore her defeat lasted longer and there was some catastrophic results after the second battle of Stalingrad, which drained also many powers, which has been used other way in France, or Italy. In Italy, things were good, until some stupid offensive action, which resulted in several losses and therefore a retreat from the Rome-line. Overall, if you can somehow spare some extra forces, or prestige to make the Italian Axis forces stronger, I would say, after weakening the Allied forces, later even a counter-attack is possible. Still, I lost France, where I made also several - little looking, but strategic - faults, so, again, the Ruhr-towns where the main front line. It was hard contested, both side suffered heavy losses. Even, several time, these cities changed hands. But than, the units, shipped, flied from the East, already before the defeat of the Soviets, could make the difference and finally, these towns could be firmly held.
Summary: nice VICTORY, with the Soviets defeated, Italy partly held and Germany and rest of Europe also under Axis rule. Still, I need to make another attempt from the Sicily save point to see, if it is possible to hold France and maybe recapture Italy.

Design summary:
Except the Fort-range-1 change, everything else works fine. It shows, that it is already v1.6 - the much work, we put it in, pays out, as the gameplay is really smooth and mostly historical. Stalin's bunker was also a nice addition, McGuba!
I did like all the new late war assets: the extra prestige, the King Tiger (which is a powerful weapon, but alone, still cannot make a difference), the V1-2's, which would be nice assets, if I just could hold the ground in France.
Minor suggestions, bug fixes:
- I saw a single Soviet partisan unit in South England, since middle '43.
- Strongpoints should be changed back to normal melee fightning mode.
- The armored forces in Italy after the armistice should be in German insignia and flags, because, as I have read, they were taken and used by the Germans. So, a special upgrade tree should be implemented for these units, as Germans and of course icons, with the German insignia. Maybe I will made them.

When I finished again the mod, I will upload the whole version of mine (little changes in the stats of units to McGuba's version), so anybody, who is so mazochist, as I, can try out from several saving points in Rommel difficulty.

Interesting summary of your experiences Uhu. Currently I am playing FM and going along a somewhat historical route. Its easier for me though, as I played the earlier scenarios, so am bringing about 6,000 prestige and some experienced units into Barbarossa.

Regarding your comment on strongpoints, I like that they have indirect fire mode, but I wish it was a bit weaker. At the moment, it seems they always suppress infantry to red in just 1 hit. This makes it easy for the AI to bring in some reinforcement to wipe them out, especially if you have units grouped around the strongpoint (nowhere to retreat). I prefer that it should normally only suppress to yellow, rather than red, when using indirect attack mode against infantry. Is it possible to slightly weaken their indirect fire, whilst keeping their direct fire the same?

Note that so far I’ve only been on the receiving end of strongpoints, as I am still at the early stages of Barbarossa. Once I get those special strongpoint units in ’44, I might change my mind!!

Uhu wrote:- I saw a single Soviet partisan unit in South England, since middle '43.

Ooops

Will be fixed.

Uhu wrote:- Strongpoints should be changed back to normal melee fightning mode.

JimmyC wrote:Regarding your comment on strongpoints, I like that they have indirect fire mode, but I wish it was a bit weaker.

The thing is both of you are playing on a higher (Rommel and FM, respectively) difficulty than the recommended one (General) which can clearly make a difference here. Testing on General I did not feel them so overpowered. But, if there are more complaints coming in later, I can change them back, of course.

The other thing is there are not too many Allied strongpoints, the Soviets only have like two, while most being forts, which have a longer range by default, anyway. The British have more indeed, but mainly in England, and the invasion of England in hypothetical so it should be a bit harder than it is at the moment. The ones around Tobruk also help to make the siege of that town a bit longer and harder as it really was.

And then comes the pay-off:

JimmyC wrote:Note that so far I’ve only been on the receiving end of strongpoints, as I am still at the early stages of Barbarossa. Once I get those special strongpoint units in ’44, I might change my mind!!

So yes, I also wanted to make Atlantic Wall a bit more formidable as historically it took nearly two months for the Allies to break out from Northern France. And reading Uhu's post again:

I did not pay enough attention to build up at least a minimal defense force in France, so the Allied advanced like knife in the butter.

I reckon if he did not have changed the strongpoints back to normal, he could have held out a bit longer.

McGuba wrote: I reckon if he did not have changed the strongpoints back to normal, he could have held out a bit longer.

Nope: I forgot to change them (only these) back and therefore I didn't do anything with them - I felt it unfair to have better strongpoints, than the enemy. Still, they will be fast destroyed, with the aid of the ships and bombers anyway...
Where I first met with the "overpowered strongpoints" feeling was at France at the Maginot Line - there, the gameplay got total different: much harder - that was to point, where I changed them back.

I forgot to write about the suggestions with mine belts in NA and other locations, plus some minor changes, i will do it soon. But first, I have the beat the Bear and hold the Allies at bay...

Uhu wrote: Where I first met with the "overpowered strongpoints" feeling was at France at the Maginot Line - there, the gameplay got total different: much harder - that was to point, where I changed them back.

Actually i also noticed it the most in this scenario. So much so that I could only get a Minor victory this time round, even though I got a DV last time. It is less noticeable in the Barbarossa scenario as McGuba points out.

Its been a while since my 1.05 playthrough, so my memory is a bit fuzzy, but here are my initial impressions from the first 10 turns of Barbarossa:
1. there seems to be more Regia Marina destroyers in the Mediterranean. This is very much needed due to them kind of sucking vs allied subs.
2. there seems to be a lot more units at half (or at least less than full) strength at the start of the scenario. This is both for land based and naval units. It doesn't make too much difference on land, but means you have to spend a good number of turns repairing the navy before you can really start operations. It was like that in 1.05, but seems to be even more so in 1.06 (especially in the med). It also sees your prestige go south due to the expensive repair costs.
3. It is my feeling that there are less fighters given to the Axis player. Certainly i dont have enough for each front and even on the Russian front where i have the largest concentration, I dont have enough fighters to go after the enemy planes, unless i am willing to leave my bombers unescorted. I now regret only bringing 3 Bf 109's into the scenario, rather than 4 or even 5.
4. The new naval mines change the dynamic of sea based movement. As opposed to damaging you, they seem now to primarily slow you down and are used as spotters so that allied navy and air can interdict you. Overall I prefer the way they work now although it can still be frustrating when you are held up trying to navigate mines whilst battleships and bombers are pounding you.
5. Partisans are just as annoying as ever and seem to do damage far in excess of their stats (although this was also the case for me in 1.05).

I finished my "Kursk-Sicily historical" version. I'm quite satisfied:
- I could defeat the Soviets (what is most important - no more Communism and Stalin! )
- I could hold the line in Italy plus I could take back Rome
- I defeated most of the Allied forces in France, only scattered remnants remained
So, Europe is still under Axis rule.

Still, I cannot yet come down from the "Stuff"...
I gave a chance to McGuba's Normandy save. Still, playing with Rommel mode -> calculating manually all prestige income with 50%. Boy, that's a REAL HARD version!! But I like it. It gives me the feeling, like the best campaign in the Vanilla game, with the Defending the Reich, starting in Italy campaign. Just in this mod, the design is superior and the variety of the units are huge and their stats are historical!
So, the gameplay is really fantastic. Interesting still, how a few events effects strong the circumstances!
1., How many Soviet tanks next to the Romanian borders show up. OK, it depends also, if you can destroy one of them on the river hex, but the other ones at Odessa are not destroyable. So, sometimes, Romania already change side in turn 73, sometimes you are lucky and only later. I should not say, what big differences this brings with it... (prestige, units)!
2., Weather. If you got a few rainy day, then you are really lucky! You can bring the V1's, V2's unmolested next to England and gain prestige from them. If weather is good, they will be constantly bombed, therefore they cannot start to fly, because there are planes above them. Plus of course the other good things, of the rainy days (no Allied air terror, enemy units surprisable, etc.)

The only thing, what made me angry was were - for me at least - really unpredictable outcomes of the fights. For example, on Rommel, it is really annoying to loose a strength point of a Panther against an infantry on the plain field...
I'm used to play with Limited (Dice Chess) option.
So far I play to turn 87 and things are looking mostly good: I could use most of my V1's, I hold the line at Paris and in the Alps, and North of Rome. The Soviets are rolling fast and dangerous to Danzig and to Berlin, but I hope, I can stop them, sending forces from other fronts. I made a successful counterattack to the Ploiesti oil fields and Bucharest, because I need the generated prestige of them! OK, I conquered them not fully, so maybe a strong Soviet force is coming already, but still I was happy. On the other hand, I did not let enough defenders on the Eastern Carpathians, so, the enemy achived a breakthrough and is advancing now to Budapest. I hope, when the offensive was finished at Bucharest, I can swift my forces against them. Until that, I halt their advances with whatever units are next to them...
So, as I already wrote, a really fun and freshly new gameplay for me!

Still, I plan to play it again. After I made a "copy" of this savegame: I plan to modify the initial Barbarossa campaign to make a stand, as in the save is. I think, except the hero-generating rules and maybe the earlier captured towns issue, everything else can be made. I mean, if you already captured the towns in the Ukraine, Russia, then you should not given prestige points again, if you recapture them again. But I think, this will not happen anyway...still, it can be neglected then with the prestige cheat.
So, than everybody can set up it's custom difficulty levels and custom gamerules.

Hmm, as I see, it will not so easy to done - there is no cheat to "roll" the turns to 73. That means, all, active scripts has to changed for a new timeline...

There is a script in the editor that can be written as something like:

Turn [1,1] Set Current Turn to 73.

IIRC it is in the same place where you change the strength of units etc.

- BNC

Thanks for the advice, that helped!
Now, I just to filter somehow the mass of Allied units on the map - which ones still exist, which ones no more, which ones will spawn later...

BiteNibbleChomp wrote:There is a script in the editor that can be written as something like:

Turn [1,1] Set Current Turn to 73.

IIRC it is in the same place where you change the strength of units etc.

- BNC

I worked a lot of with this Normandy start, but I give it up, at least for now. Allied units at really hard to set up from the initial turn 1 to turn 73. Plus they do not behave in the same way, as in the saved game.
What is interesting, that I after giving up, tried to type "dice chess" as cheat in - and it looks like, it works!! (dice chess cheat is not listed in the cheat list, anyway, by the time it was published, there was no dice chess option in the game menu)
So, if it really works, I can live with the manually prestige calculation, simulating Rommel mode. Of course, a Normandy starting point would be still good, maybe McGuba helps me later on that.