Slitherine

bru888 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:00 am

ColonelY wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:08 pm

jeffoot77 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:21 pm each mission is so exciting !

Glad to read this.

Wait until you get a load of Operation Vesuvius.

This scenario sounds definitely highly promising, that's for sure!

Colonel, is this a proper translation into French?

Général de Gaulle, ce petit bateau, La Combattante, se fait un nom. Cela me ramène à mes propres jours de navigation. Laissez-moi vous raconter quelques histoires à son sujet. (General de Gaulle, this little ship, La Combattante, is making a name for itself. It takes me back to my own seafaring days. Let me tell you some stories about her.)

Yes, it's perfect!

Amazing.Google Translate has gotten better over the years. Thanks.

Any suggestions for vignettes in the Channel for a French destroyer? I need four of them. I have two or three good ideas but I'm a bit stumped for the other one or two. Avoid chasing enemy submarines, which is B-O-R-I-N-G in this game. This probably rules out convoy duty.

The idea is to have four mini-scenarios taking place in each of these map quadrants.


Yes, I am getting ahead of myself. Just thinking ahead, that is. Operation Vesuvius will be out soon; it's about 80% done.

My ideas:

1) La Combattante made her first sortie in 23 March 1943, escorting a convoy in the English Channel. She rescued 68 sailors from the liberty ship Stell Traveller, after it had struck a mine. (Quadrant 1 - rescue seamen in lifeboats before they are destroyed by E-boats)

2) Exercise Tiger, or Operation Tiger, was one of a series of large-scale rehearsals for the D-Day invasion of Normandy, which took place in April 1944 on Slapton Sands in Devon. Coordination and communication problems resulted in friendly fire deaths during the exercise, and an Allied convoy positioning itself for the landing was attacked by E-boats of Nazi Germany's Kriegsmarine. (Quadrant 2 - yes, this would be a fabrication as to La Combattante participating)

3) La Combattante took part in Operation Neptune, providing close fire support to the landing parties during the Battle of Normandy off Courseulles-sur-Mer . . . La Combattante destroyed several shore batteries, until troops started landing on the beach. (Quadrant 4 - very limited in scope; no way I am doing all of Juno Beach)

Excellent idea, creating four mini-scenarios taking place in each one of these map quadrants... and playing certainly one after the other...

And perfectly coherent with the part of the briefing we've already seen, about telling some stories (so several of them, preciely) about this ship. One story per quadrant, that is!


Good that you've presented the ideas you already have - a cool way to avoid duplicates.

Okay, I'll think a little about a potential fourth mini-scenario... (while still avoiding subs, it's understood ).

Let me think a little about it...

Well, we do need some cool variation... with your ideas, we already have one (escort and) rescue mission, as well as two landings missions (as an exercise or not)... we said to avoid hunting subs...

Surely enough, we could imagine a mission where our ship has to go here or there to transport important people or secret documents... maybe, extrapolating a bit, in the Arctic zone, not far from the Russians...

But this would be too much like the Normandy-Niemen scenario with the tour organized in B-25 C for our good old admiral Portier... almost a copy-paste but on the sea instead of the skies...

No, we have to find another choice...

*******

Hem... Have you already heard about the Battle of Ko Chang?
(Or Koh Chang... It happened the 17th January 1941.)

At that time, it wasn't question of the French "La Combattante"... but as we're telling stories, it could as well be the story of some officers that could have taken part to some battle previously, to have gained some experience before taking their command on the Free French "La Combattante"... perhaps even related to our good old Admiral Portier...


You've some information here on this French webpage https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bataille_de_Ko_Chang ... and I strongly advice translating parts of it using online tools rather than simply jumping on its English "equivalent" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Ko_Chang) which is not that equivalent at all in term of content ( )... Here is another source (easily translatable using online tools, again): http://www.netmarine.net/bat/croiseur/lamotte/kohchang/

Translated from the later:
"Preamble

At the beginning of the war, Japan, which was not happy with the French presence in Indochina and wished to take advantage of the French defeat in 1940, thought it could realize its expansionist dreams with the support of its Siamese ally.

Siam (now Thailand), which had been negotiating a non-aggression pact with France for several months, brutally declared in June 1940 that the signing of such a treaty was no longer necessary. At the end of 1940, Siam, which claimed sovereignty over all the territories located east of the Mekong River, massed its troops on the borders of Cambodia and began a series of provocations and incursions into the territory of the Protectorate. Our forces reacted vigorously and thus a real state of war was established.

It became clear that if the Siamese Navy had not yet gone into action, it would do so very soon. However, until January 1941, French operations against Siam had been limited to defensive operations... But for Admiral Decoux, Governor General of Indochina, it was time to take the lead. On January 15, he gave the green light to Admiral Terraux, commander of the Navy in Indochina, to carry out an operation against the Siamese Navy that was to lead to the battle of Koh Chang."

Part translated from the French wiki page:
"On January 10, 1941, Thai forces launched an offensive in Laos and Cambodia, which were French colonies administered by the Vichy regime.

On January 16, 1941, France launched a large land counter-offensive on the Thai villages of Yang Dang Khum and Phum Préav, where fierce fighting took place.

The French counter-attack was a failure and ended in a retreat, but the Thais were unable to pursue the French forces, their tanks having been pinned down by French artillery."


Now, we have the Thai faction in OoB with its own flag... they can have some Hawk III (against some old recon planes), but as well Italian models of destroyers, some Japanese as well, even one old British model may be involved, etc. We've the flag. We've enough different kind of models available and, moreover, respecting History...

A scenario inspired by these events would change completely... and allow a real small naval battle. Furthermore, without insisting too much on it, however, it allows us to remember that France had a colonial empire at the time and that it was also present in Asia!

*******
Now, when to put this mini-scenario about this Battle or a part of it at least?

As we've two ideas about landings (one as "exercise", one more real), then it could appear in-between... a little like a digression... as if our good old Admiral Portier was talking to the Général and saying something like "Besides, it reminds me of such and such an officer I knew at the Naval School (or something), a hell of a guy who had his baptism of fire at the Battle of ... What do you mean, it doesn't ring a bell? Don't worry, General, I'll summarize it all for you."

So, it could take place like this:

1. The first sortie of the proud La Combattante
2. Exercise/Operation Tiger
3. Battle of Ko Chang
4. Operation Neptune

By the way, creating 4 separate mini-scenarios also allows you to work with a "much" larger base map.

Since it will be divided into smaller portions (if these mini-scenarios are played in turn - and this should not slow down the turns as the AI will only have one part of the map active at a time as well)... furthermore, as subdivisions, it is not necessary to have four perfectly identical squares: some portions of the large map can be larger or smaller as needed.

Due to dates, perhaps 14OperationDiadem (May 1944) should actually come BEFORE 13LaCombattante (with its last mini-scenario about Operation Neptune, or the landings in Normandie, in June 1944)...

Battle of Ko Chang, eh? I never even heard of the Franco-Thai War!

But it's not convoy duty (heaven forbid) and it's a French sea battle that I have been dying to do. Yes . . . yes . . . it's just zany enough to work! I'll do it!

Quadrant 1. Here is the lead-in:


You are right about the timing. If Quadrant 4 will be Operation Neptune, then Operation Diadem should precede La Combattante. I will make the switch.

And this is how I will transition from Quadrant 1 to Quadrant 2 (recall that the first message is titled "Executive Officer"):


All of which is subject to fine-tuning, of course. Note: While Bérenger is real, Patou is semi-fictional. On exactly one web site only, there is this vague reference to the commanding officer of La Combattante: "... this warship is ordered during the Battle of Normandy by Lieutenant-Commander Patou." I added "Félix."

But now, La Combattante is two scenarios ahead, so back into the file drawer it goes, for now.

Fine.

Meanwhile, about Ko(h) Chang, there are already these few elements: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duydqwo7ybI

Together with perhaps the 5 first minutes of this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=122dU0QTa2A

As it has been written: "Smaller theaters and smaller battles were fought all around the world, many of which resulted in terrible privation and suffering, sometimes terrible cruelty, and at times incredible acts of heroism." (source https://www.historyandheadlines.com/jan ... 1940-1941/ with maps and pictures as well )

Free France 1940-1945 v0.29, 01Dakar


I discovered this hidden Vichy unit running out of supplies at the beginning...


...and this unit is not alone in his case :


I wish British Engineers were equipped with Universal Carrier to change trucks and because it’s so much more fun :

-> These three infantry units are indeed together because they represent some (coastal) patrol... Now:

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:17 am [...] running out of supplies at the beginning... [...]

Well, that's a little imprecise. I would say they are running low on supplies, and not at the beginning but "only" as soon as you've taken the supply output along the road in the NE (on your first printscreen).
3 infantry units which needs 4 supply pts each to stay fully operational, so a total of 12 supply points needed for the 10 granted by the supply output behind them on another road... They should be able to put a good stand like this anyway. So, I would say it's fine like this.
You know, in some older version, they didn't have this +10 supply output behind them...

-> Universal Carrier instead of British Truck for the Britsh Engineers? There, I would vote in favor...
Yeah, this would also increase the diversity of the units present (or of their means of transport - let's not play with words!), which is often a good thing.

A little digression about the Battle of Ko Chang, if I may.

I (really) like more and more the idea of opening a small parenthesis in this campaign to talk about it, because first of all even in France these events remain (almost) unknown , so even Frenchies could really learn something about their own history thanks to this scenario.

Indeed, according to a translation of the French Wiki page I mentioned before, we have:
"Naval historian Jacques Mordal has pointed out that the Battle of Koh Chang was the only naval battle fought and won in both world wars by a French naval force, using exclusively French plans and resources. [So rather rare... all the more reason to talk about it!] In his war memoirs, General De Gaulle evokes "the brilliant naval victory of January 17, 1941, during which the cruiser Lamotte-Picquet and a few French avisos sent the Siamese fleet to the bottom". [Well, a little exaggeration there , as it was not ALL the Siamese fleet of course... which the General did not affirm either... but it is a little confusing, certainly on purpose.] Following this victory, Captain Régis Bérenger was promoted to Rear Admiral.

However, this feat of arms remains unknown in France, perhaps because it was won by the Vichy Navy. [Yeah, that may be why...] Nevertheless, the name of this battle can be found in a few streets and squares and in a few memorials in Brittany, in the Vendée and of course on board the current ship La Motte-Picquet, whose 100mm turret bears the name of Ko Chang."

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:17 am Free France 1940-1945 v0.29, 01Dakar
I discovered this hidden Vichy unit running out of supplies at the beginning...

I had thought that the 10 supply on the road behind them would be sufficient in this case but I forgot that they are in trucks which means each unit needs 4 supply, not 3.


That's why they are in "orange supply condition" in your screen shot. It's reasonable to assume that, since Vichy still controlled the rest of the colony, supplies coming from the east would not be an issue. So, both hexes with road/railroad on the edge of the map are now 25 supply.

terminator wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:17 am I wish British Engineers were equipped with Universal Carrier to change trucks and because it’s so much more fun

A reasonable request which I made good on while I was fixing the supply issue.

These changes will be in the next campaign update.

ColonelY wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:49 am ... the Battle of Koh Chang was the only naval battle fought and won in both world wars by a French naval force, using exclusively French plans and resources ...

Well, no wonder I have had trouble finding a French sea battle to recreate! ( )

Great suggestion, thanks. As to "aviso," the term seems to be a bit ambiguous. My dictionary defines it as "An advice boat, or dispatch boat.' Wikipedia, however, expands the definition thusly:

An aviso was originally a kind of dispatch boat or "advice boat", carrying orders before the development of effective remote communication.

The term, derived from the Portuguese and Spanish word for "advice", "notice" or "warning", an adviso, was later adopted by the French and Portuguese navies to classify their medium-sized warships designed for colonial service. The term continued to be used in the French Navy to classify the D'Estienne d'Orves-class patrol frigates until 2012, when the remaining ships of the class were reclassified as offshore patrol ships. It is equivalent to the modern use of "sloop" in other countries.

For the Battle of Ko Chang, it says this:

The squadron consisted of:
* the light cruiser Lamotte-Picquet: a light cruiser built in 1923. The ship was fast but poorly armored.
* the modern avisos Dumont d'Urville and Amiral Charner. Those ships were especially designed for colonial service and could embark a company of infantry. They were very lightly armed and without armor.
* the older avisos Tahure and Marne.

I think, for the purposes of gameplay, that I will not be using American motor torpedo boats as avisos. Not enough firepower. Instead, I will take an expansive view of "aviso" by making the Dumont d'Urville and Amiral Charner destroyers of the British E-class (the lowest). The Tahure and Marne will be gunboats.

Same courtesy to be allowed for the . . . Siamese? Despite what de Gaulle calls them, Siam became Thailand sometime after the Siamese Revolution of 1932. Sources vary (quite humorously, really, if you do a search of "When did Siam become Thailand?" and read just the web page summaries) but the consensus seems to be June 1939, well before the Battle of Ko Chang. Hence the "Franco-Thai War." I'll refer to them as Thais in the scenario.

See that? How's that for quality? Such attention to detail is a hallmark of this campaign. It is also a big reason why it has taken so long to get even this far. ( )

I really like your attention to details. Go on!

I'd like to clone Bruce and employ him as my personal make-scenarios-better-assistant