Slitherine

Intothevalley wrote: Does anyone know of a use for medium foot with light spear only?

1- Giving rear support to real troops
2 - Errr
3 - That's it
(You're fired - Ed)

Ambush in the middle of a 16MU diameter wood?

Well the average unprotected mob light spear in my Slave Revolt army are not that shabby. Their best ever effort was breaking a BG of superior armoured heavy foot impact foot skilled swordsmen

OK, we were in terrain, there were only 4 of the heavy foot, I had a BG of 10 mob and a commander but after the impact the combat played out pretty much to the odds.

Not having swordsmen is a problem but is not the end of the earth. They are probably better value against spears, are definitley better value against skilled swordsmen and errr, OK even I am running out of ideas now.

Does anyone know of a use for medium foot with light spear only?

Guarding the camp perhaps? (just pray that nothing more substantial than skirmishers decides on a looting spree!)
Bulking up the break point of the army by adding to the BG count? (the reason most people buy mobs for example)

Intothevalley wrote: Does anyone know of a use for medium foot with light spear only?

Sit them on a steep hill and protect a flank.

Intothevalley wrote:Does anyone know of a use for medium foot with light spear only? .

It will depend what else is there. They're a bad main line battle type (but you'd get a lot of them). I've found in biblical armies though that if you have tougher stuff keeping the enemies attention then a few weaker MF BGs can help on the flanks. It's a question of getting the numbers to bear. After all 8 unprotected LS only MF should beat any 4 bases of MF of equivalent morale if everyone fights.

You could also use them as a cheap sacrifice unti to dar part of the enemy line into a rash pursuit and break up their line.

OK, I'm convinced. My next army will be early Slavic.....

Now that the lists are out, I have a few questions as I eagerly await mine in the states.

What are E. Tang infantry? Are they armoured MF defensive sp with or without bw support from a rear rank? Can any be doublearmed as Bw and Sp, as they are described as being? Some Tang spearmen are shown depicted using the spear two handed -- are these in the list at all? If so are they Pikemen or offensive spear, or something else?

These questions vexed me as I was having the Tang made, so I had to make them all, nine different spearmen all together! Three poses of: men with spear shield; men with spear bow shield; men with spear two-handed.

Are E. Tang heavy cavalry lance, or lance bw*, or Bw swordsman? Can any be cataphracts?

Tibetan foot -- I assume some are armoured MF Bw, others armoured MF defensive sp?

Are Tibetan nobles lance, or lance bw*? Presume they are cataphracts.

Sorry if any of these ? are disallowed, but the book is on the way and I'm about to put these lines up for sale, so it helps to know these things!

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Now that the lists are out, I have a few questions as I eagerly await mine in the states.

What are E. Tang infantry? Are they armoured MF defensive sp with or without bw support from a rear rank? Can any be doublearmed as Bw and Sp, as they are described as being? Some Tang spearmen are shown depicted using the spear two handed -- are these in the list at all? If so are they Pikemen or offensive spear, or something else?

Early Tang fubing are 1/2 Light Spear, Swordsmen and 1/2 Bow, Swordsmen. Of course this is a game classification to try and cover the various possibilities in a reasonable manner. The figures can quite easily have the various weapons that are attributed, we just graded for the (hopefully) correct effect.

These questions vexed me as I was having the Tang made, so I had to make them all, nine different spearmen all together! Three poses of: men with spear shield; men with spear bow shield; men with spear two-handed.

All of these would be useful and usable - face it we used the same info (plus some) to create the list as you did for the figures

Are E. Tang heavy cavalry lance, or lance bw*, or Bw swordsman? Can any be cataphracts?

Mainly Bow, Swordsmen with a few Lancer catafracts.

The list covers the Western Wei through Early Tand and the earlier dynasties have Lnacers instead of archers BTW.

Tibetan foot -- I assume some are armoured MF Bw, others armoured MF defensive sp?

A small number of Protected bowmen and a small number of Protected/Armoured HF spearmen.

Are Tibetan nobles lance, or lance bw*? Presume they are cataphracts.

Catafract lancers.

Sorry if any of these ? are disallowed, but the book is on the way and I'm about to put these lines up for sale, so it helps to know these things!

No worries.

nik and khurrasan wrote:Are Tibetan nobles lance, or lance bw*? Presume they are cataphracts.

Catafract lancers.

They have bows, but have forgotten

khurasan_miniatures wrote:Now that the lists are out, I have a few questions as I eagerly await mine in the states.

What are E. Tang infantry? Are they armoured MF defensive sp with or without bw support from a rear rank? Can any be doublearmed as Bw and Sp, as they are described as being? Some Tang spearmen are shown depicted using the spear two handed -- are these in the list at all? If so are they Pikemen or offensive spear, or something else?

These questions vexed me as I was having the Tang made, so I had to make them all, nine different spearmen all together! Three poses of: men with spear shield; men with spear bow shield; men with spear two-handed.

mostly MF half Light Spear and Sword & half Bow and Sword
plus up to 8 bases of HF with swords or HW

khurasan_miniatures wrote: Are E. Tang heavy cavalry lance, or lance bw*, or Bw swordsman? Can any be cataphracts?

mostly Bw swordsman, with small numbers of Cataphracts, crossbow swordsman & LH bow. There are also 2 bases of elite cataphracts/ Bw swordsman/lance swordsmen available. (and if you want more LH you can have as many as three steppe allies at once)

khurasan_miniatures wrote: Tibetan foot -- I assume some are armoured MF Bw, others armoured MF defensive sp?

Surprisingly for Empires of the Dragon, the spearmen are HF! However, the archers are only protected,

khurasan_miniatures wrote: Are Tibetan nobles lance, or lance bw*? Presume they are cataphracts.

lance sword cataphracts, (who can dismount as offensive spear/)

Thanks guys, yes I should have remembered that the Tibetan archers would be protected -- though they wore metal armour, they don't have shields, and IIRC that counts as protected.

Very useful! I have models to cover all of this except the HW Tang foot. I wonder what these are? I don't recall there being any large swordsmen in the T'ang period, or dagger axes on long staves, etc.

What use for the spearmen wielding the spear in two hands? Are those the HW?

Cheers
Jon

nikgaukroger wrote: All of these would be useful and usable - face it we used the same info (plus some) to create the list as you did for the figures

Well, Duncan Head gave me the advice on the models, esp the foot. Of course, I did also have a look at the DBMM list.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:
What use for the spearmen wielding the spear in two hands? Are those the HW?

No reason why they cannot be used for the front rank of the infantry - Light Spear classification is, after all, just the game way of representing their effect.

khurasan_miniatures wrote:

nikgaukroger wrote: All of these would be useful and usable - face it we used the same info (plus some) to create the list as you did for the figures

Well, Duncan Head gave me the advice on the models, esp the foot. Of course, I did also have a look at the DBMM list.

Duncan helped with the FoG lists as well

Very useful! I have models to cover all of this except the HW Tang foot. I wonder what these are? I don't recall there being any large swordsmen in the T'ang period, or dagger axes on long staves, etc.

I think I remember reading somewhere that for a while the Tang issued dagger-axes to some crossbow armed troops as a side-arm, but they found that soldiers would often forget about their crossbows and would charge in to combat, so they stopped using them.
There was also the idea that the Tang might have had some elite untis equipped with double-handed swords as a continuation of the practice of arming the imperial guard with such weapons during the Northern dynasties.
Sorry that I can't reference these, but all my books are in Britain and I'm in China

Antoshisamazing wrote:..... all my books are in Britain and I'm in China

Would that not be the best place to find an answer

philqw78 wrote:

Antoshisamazing wrote:..... all my books are in Britain and I'm in China

Would that not be the best place to find an answer

only if your a Party member

nikgaukroger wrote:

khurasan_miniatures wrote:
What use for the spearmen wielding the spear in two hands? Are those the HW?

No reason why they cannot be used for the front rank of the infantry - Light Spear classification is, after all, just the game way of representing their effect.

Yes, but I already have men with spear and shield, and with spear bow and shield, for that.

I may suggest to people that they use them as the anti-cavalry squads -- after all, using a spear two handed instead of with a shield may have been to fend off cavalry.

Why no artillery in the Early T'ang list? (I got my book today )

i saw a post from khurasan

i bought him some huns
receive it in one week (i'm in france !)
and the fig are great :
http://marcofwar.unblog.fr/page/2/

it's a "free" post to express that i'm happy to see a new and serious manufacturer in 15 mm
impatient to see the tang