Slitherine

I posted earlier we would play the battles consecutively to minimize the lack of nobles problem.

I may need a link to the current rules, as I don't think I have the latest version.

Karvon

Ok here's my updated command list of Mortimers Cross

5) Henry Holland, Duke of Exeter (1430-75) – available 1459 to 1487. CiC
6) Thomas Courtenay, Earl of Devon (1432-61) – available 1459 to 1487.
7) James Butler, Earl of Wiltshire (1420-61) – available 1459 to 1471.

stockwellpete wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 10:01 am

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Tue Dec 13, 2022 9:53 am That is interesting. So running out of commanders is not a big problem as you still have the same number of generals on the battlefield with all the bonuses that brings but losing Royals is (something that the Lancastrians did suffer from after Towton in real life).

No. Read this bit again . . .

"If a faction is unable to fill all the required commander slots in a battle then those unfilled commander units may not take part in the battle (they are moved to the baseline as soon as possible). It assumed that minor nobles have taken command of the remaining units in these circumstances."

So you would usually fill your commander slots with nobles, unless the scenario states you have to field a royal. But sometimes you might voluntarily chose a royal if you feel you could win the battle and get a points bonus. But in a situation where you are losing commanders heavily you will have a difficult choice. Fill the leadership slots with eligible royals or be prepared to move your commander unit(s) to the baseline at the start of a battle. This would represent a crisis of leadership in the faction.

I think Kavron will require three commanders at Mortimer's Cross following the September amendment, not the two he has selected. But I could start 2nd St Alban's with a Royal (Edmund Beaufort) and the one remaining named commander. Alternatively we could wait and fight 2nd St Alban's after Mortimer's Cross using commanders who survive in both battles (not sure if that was feasible in real life). What do people think?

My view is we should wait, but it is up to Karvon.

Thanks Pete, I am glad you are here to explain the rules to me!

Yorkists have taken an early 20-8 lead at Mortimer's Cross. No leader casualties so far.

Further progress for the Yorkists who now lead 29-8 and are about to close the trap on the Lancastrian left wing. There are 4 Lancastrian units completely surrounded and cut off now, including one leader. No leadership casualties so far, but there is still a good chance for a successful Yorkist "pursuit" in this battle.

Latest: Yorkists now leading 39-8. Might be over next turn. No leader casualties so far, but a pursuit is quite likely.

The Yorkists have triumphed 43-8 at Mortimer's Cross. The Lancastrian assault came too late to save their encircled soldiers. I will also claim a pursuit as both my LH are still intact. So that will be 3 more Lancastrian heads on spikes, although only 2 names are known to me at the moment. Final position here . . .

Beg pardon, Karvon updated his leader post for Mortimer's Cross . . .

5) Henry Holland, Duke of Exeter (1430-75) – available 1459 to 1487. CiC
6) Thomas Courtenay, Earl of Devon (1432-61) – available 1459 to 1487.
7) James Butler, Earl of Wiltshire (1420-61) – available 1459 to 1471.

These are all executed.

Sorry, my notebook died and I've had to replace it. I've yet to salvage the data off the HD, so had to review forum posts. Next battle is previously posted Wakefield. Only one Lancastrian commander available:

Jasper Tudor (1431-95) – available 1459 to 1471.

Karvon

Karvon wrote: ↑Wed Dec 28, 2022 11:41 pm Sorry, my notebook died and I've had to replace it. I've yet to salvage the data off the HD, so had to review forum posts. Next battle is previously posted Wakefield. Only one Lancastrian commander available:

Jasper Tudor (1431-95) – available 1459 to 1471.

Karvon

Karvon, you might want to check this. There are actually 2x Edmund Beaufort's in the Lancastrian faction . . .

1) Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset (1406-1455) – available 1455 to 1465
2) Edmund Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, (1438-1471) – available from 1459 to 1487 (only becomes Duke of Somerset if Henry Beaufort is killed).

The first one has been killed (at 1st St Albans), but the second one is still alive (Henry Beaufort is also dead). The second Edmund is also a royal claimant. So, for 2nd St Albans, the scenario instructions say . . .

"Lancastrians - choose 3 commanders, one of which must be Henry Beaufort, Duke of Somerset, if he is available, otherwise another royal character must be chosen, Yorkists – choose 3 commanders."

I think this means that the second Edmund Beaufort, who is now Duke of Somerset, has to be C-in-C and Jasper Tudor can be Commander 2. Commander 3 will have to be left vacant so his unit will not be able to take part in the battle (it will have to be immediately moved to the baseline away from the action). See Rule b iv) . . .

"If a faction is unable to fill all the required commander slots in a battle then those unfilled commander units may not take part in the battle (they are moved to the baseline as soon as possible). It assumed that minor nobles have taken command of the remaining units in these circumstances."

I will set up Second St Alban's today for angusosborne. PW Peter.

Good Luck and Have Fun.

Second St Alban's is underway.

The Lancastrian C in C is Edmund Beaufort and the other sub general is Jasper Tudor, as explained above by Stockwell Pete.

The third general is positioned in St Alban's, that unit is already as far as possible from the enemy, so I will just keep that unit in it's starting position.

The Yorkist generals will be the historical generals:

Our C-in-C is Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick. The sub-generals are John Neville, Marquess of Montagu and John Howard, Duke of Norfolk

I have made a hash of Second St Albans. I spent a couple of turns positioning my rear guard before the Lancastrians arrived. But then realised (because Peter pointed it out) that not only was the game starting after the initial Lancastrian attack had been repulsed, but I had the battle backwards and the Lancastrians were already attacking my rear guard which I had thought was my vanguard. Anyway we're 31:0 down and I don't think I'm going to get my rearguard in position before we lose. I apologise to my fellow Yorkists. I probably didn't read the battle description properly.

At this point, we Lancastrians need all the breaks we can get

Karvon

I was very lucky getting to fight Second St Alban's because:
1. It favours the Lancastrians.
2. It was the only one of Stockwell Pete's WOTR campaign battles I had fought before. I played it in August, when it was slightly different, and neither I nor my opponent were fully aware of the special rules. I managed to lose that battle but in the process learnt that the Lancastrians have to be decisive from the start. In the first battle I tried to reorganise my front line and that allowed my opponent to turn around and march back to the good defensive position at the heath. This time I tried to force matters from the off.

Perhaps this is a battle the Yorkists should approach as one to avoid losing rather than trying to win.

That said at the moment there are no Lancastrian prickers on the battlefield so unless they arrive quickly from the clean up operation in St Alban's there will be no pursuit.

PeterThePainter wrote: ↑Fri Jan 06, 2023 2:30 pm
Perhaps this is a battle the Yorkists should approach as one to avoid losing rather than trying to win.

Yes, or try to avoid any pursuit by inflicting 30% casualties, or by disrupting a LH unit should two of them appear. I have tried to build all sorts of sub-plots into these scenarios. They can play very differently from game to game.

With a third of the Yorkist army annihilated, the Earl of Warwick makes a stand on high ground behind the heath. But are the Lancastrians already behind him? 2nd St, Alban's Turn 9.

And it was all over the following turn 43 -0. No leaders fell on either side. A unit of Lancastrian LH appeared at the end of the last turn, so perhaps I should have proceeded more slowly to give more time for another one to arrive, but no pursuit which the Lancastrians really needed.

Well played to my opponent in a difficult battle for the Yorkists.

Sorry for the delay. Been a bit busy sorting out new notebook and had to reconstruct the spreadsheet I lost on my old one. Based on the results of the last series we move on to...

EPISODE ELEVEN 1461: FERRYBRIDGE

The Yorkists move their army north to confront the Lancastrians again but find their crossing of the River Aire in Yorkshire contested by the Lancastrian rearguard. Choice for the Lancastrian player: will you defend the crossing or withdraw? (Note: the required commanders are both dead, so spots can be filled by whomever is available.)

Ferrybridge (March 1461)

Lancastrians – PeterThePainter - choose 1 commander
Yorkists – edb1815 - choose 3 commanders

Outcomes

Go immediately to episode 12.

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