Combat Log Preview

[deducter]

A player can use the l hotkey to pull up a combat log after two units fight. It is possible to pull up a combat log to see all the contributing factors prior to a battle?

[Rudankort]

A player can use the l hotkey to pull up a combat log after two units fight. It is possible to pull up a combat log to see all the contributing factors prior to a battle?

Not in 1.0, but this is on my list.

PS. Even if you have stopped by just very quickly - nice to see you and welcome to Panzer Corps 2 forum.

[Kerensky]

A player can use the l hotkey to pull up a combat log after two units fight. It is possible to pull up a combat log to see all the contributing factors prior to a battle?

Not in 1.0, but this is on my list.

That's surprising to hear. But then I guess I should say because I'm actually against this feature.

Going into an engagement, you need to use your wits and planning and the guesstimate provided with the causality preview. If you want to deep dive into what will happen, you should have to do it yourself. Look at their initiative, look at yours. Look at their entrenchment. See if they're on high ground. Spot if they have supporting units rather than leave the hexes behind them inside of fog of war. I imagine that last one will especially ruin pre-battle detailed reports by the way, or be a cheat way to detect support units you can't actually see.

Point is, you shouldn't have access to perfect information going into the battle. Some information is good, but not perfect. After the battle, when your subordinates prepare a nice detailed AAR of the encounter for you, now you can have all of the extreme details of what happened in the engagement.

Detailed information before launching an attack feels a bit too 'precog' to me. And there are plenty of indicators on how the battle will go before you launch it.

[Rudankort]

That's surprising to hear. But then I guess I should say because I'm actually against this feature.

Not sure what you mean. This feature always existed in Panzer Corps, and it did not create any issues. Of course, just as normal prediction does not take invisible units into account, extended prediction will not take them into account either.

[deducter]

PS. Even if you have stopped by just very quickly - nice to see you and welcome to Panzer Corps 2 forum.

Thanks! I'm honestly surprised you remember me, it has been many years.
Also, you are very responsive both here and on the Steam Forums, which I think is very admirable.

Going into an engagement, you need to use your wits and planning and the guesstimate provided with the causality preview. If you want to deep dive into what will happen, you should have to do it yourself. Look at their initiative, look at yours. Look at their entrenchment. See if they're on high ground. Spot if they have supporting units rather than leave the hexes behind them inside of fog of war. I imagine that last one will especially ruin pre-battle detailed reports by the way, or be a cheat way to detect support units you can't actually see.

I think it would be nice to see this information in a more convenient format, rather than show any information that the player does not have access to. For example, an infantry attacking into another infantry in a town. It'd be nice to see my attack/defense/initiative vs theirs, what is the entrenchment value, etc. If I attack a Tiger into a Sherman I'd like to see those relative values too. I should also see if I have any bonuses/maluses/traits such as mass attack, encirclement penalties, bonus vs structures, etc.

All of this information is already available, but I just have select my own unit and the AI's unit and toggle back and forth. Just asking for an easier comparison so I can more a more informed decision.

It should not show what the exact outcome will be.

[Patrick Ward]

I'm not so sure where I stand on this.

On previous games I've worked on, it was discovered through testing that such an overload of information at their point of focus was really intimidating for the vast majority of players. It was much better to hide it one level away for the far fewer hardcore players who where usually more tolerant of having to dig just a little deeper. So either require an extra CTRL or SHIFT, or an option that is off by default.

And I also agree with Kerensky ( is that the first time? ) that there should actually be a degree of skill and effort required to do well. The player who puts the work into learning the subtleties and nuances should be rewarded. Providing the player with all the information could easily turn it into a more complex game of chess. Thats not why I play wargames. In fact my favourite paper wargames usually require a high degree of chaos management.

Then again, as Rudankort suggests, if it lacks the support information, and maybe other elements that should essentially be invisible to the player, then it could be ok. .. if hidden behind an extra key press or option. I really don't think it should be a default for most players.

My 2c.

Pat

[deducter]

I agree this option should be off by default. In PzC 1 I think you had to shift + right click or something like that to pull it up.

I'm just asking for the information that is already visible to the player in other elements of the UI to be consolidated into a nicer format. Right now to see all the information, I have to first check the red numbers to compare, then remember what all the icons circled in blue are (which I'd have to do by hovering over all of them), then to see the terrain I have to unclick the enemy unit, click on the hex, then remember what all those icons in yellow mean. I'd then have to remember to look at the stars of both units. And there's also mass attack and recon bonuses which are indicated visually as well (A new player might well ask, what exactly are those bonuses again? Better look at the manual). With time, sure, players will have all of this memorized, so this is more of a nice-to-have feature. But a consolidated presentation of this information can also help players understand the game much mechanics faster.

Showing the calculations prior to making a move is common in modern tactical games. For example, XCOM and XCOM2 both allow the player to see a breakdown of why the hit chance is a particular value prior to taking a shot.