Light Chariots - need some help with my Ancient Britons

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:24 am

Hi all
I am trying to reduce my 800 point army down to 600 points.
I run two units of 4 light chariots in my 800 point list.
The rest of the army is warriors and a few slingers.

At 800 points I have so much on the table that I send the chariots off on a flank march , which is good fun if/when they turn up.

Does anyone use light chariots in their armies , if so do you think they are any good ?
I can get 4 for 60 points. Superior

, Undrillled

, Light spear :-I

hazelbark · Post by **hazelbark** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:58 pm

Somewhere there is a thread on chariots versus enemy mounted.

I for one would keep 1 BG if you can, because they are pretty capably to hold off a slightly strogner force of enemy mounted.

They get 8 dice superior. Versus say a roman BG of Armd average lt sp/swrd cav. has 6 dice.

Its evens at Impact so superior gives them a slight edge.
In melee they are down a POA.
So Chariots dish out 2.67 on average plus the superior re-roll. The Romans get an average of 3 hits.

So the chariots being a bit cheaper are nearly even. And if the romand only have 4 stands then the odds slightly favor the chariots.

shall · Post by **shall** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:20 pm

I agree its worth keeping 1 of them as you shrink. Then can cover a decent amount of space realtively safely. I find them more tactical support for the warrions than game winners in their own right.

Si

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Thu Feb 19, 2009 8:57 pm

Ok thanks
I've searched the forums and found some battle reports etc .
They seem to be handy in most battles , but when I have to reduce the army to 600 points it's a real squeeze when you need your warbands big!

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:20 am

Keith wrote:Ok thanks
I've searched the forums and found some battle reports etc .
They seem to be handy in most battles , but when I have to reduce the army to 600 points it's a real squeeze when you need your warbands big!

Well one BG of 4 chariots is only 10% of your points, and only 4 points more than a BG of 8 Warriors. It's your only manoeuvrable fighting (i.e. non-skirmisher) force. It will usually be fighting on the same net POA as warriors and is superior. I would definitely take at least 1 BG

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:21 pm

My latest 600 point list.
12BG's

CinC TC x1
Troop Commander TC x3
Warriors MF x8
Warriors MF x8
Warriors MF x8
Light Chariots LCh -
Light Chariots LCh -
Skirmishers LF x6
Skirmishers LF x6
Skirmishers LF x6
Skirmishers LF x6
Skirmishers LF x6
Skirmishers LF x6
Light Horse LH x4

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 12:38 pm

Not bad but slingers are IMO much better in BGs of 8.

Also 4 commanders for this force is a bit of overkill IMO. You have a lot of skirmishers and maneuverable troops, why do you need 4 commanders?

speedy · Post by **speedy** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:38 pm

Hammy,

I usually find LF in 8s take too much floor-space and I finish up dropping a file or two back to get a tighter wheel and so on .... why 8s, to increase resilience to other shooting skirmishers?

Ian.

madaxeman · Post by **madaxeman** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:33 pm

speedy wrote:Hammy,

I usually find LF in 8s take too much floor-space and I finish up dropping a file or two back to get a tighter wheel and so on .... why 8s, to increase resilience to other shooting skirmishers?

Ian.

With most LF being in 6's, having 8's means both that you can frightening them off if you threaten going into combat, and you are also shooting with 4 dice which gives you a much better chance of geting the 2-3 hits needed than shooting with just 3.

I also found with Anc Brits that you really do need to be able to scare away an enemy skirmish screen otherwise your army gets very disjointed due to your inability to prevent your undrilled units charging against enemy skirmishers.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:13 pm

Tim has got it pretty much on the nail.

A BG of 6 tests on 2 hits and gets 3 dice. A BG of 8 tests in 3 hits and gets 4. If you put a line of 4 BGs of 6 against 3 BGs of 8 then ignoring death rolls (which can have a bit of an effect) there is a 50/50 chance each turn of a CT on the BGs of 5 while there is only a 31.25% chance of tests on the BGs of 8.

There is a 12.5% chance that the 6s will test at -1 compared to a 6.25% chance of a -1 test on the 8s.

Add in that it is unusual to find 4 BGs of 6 in a row and you can look at the bullying on bigger numbers trick.

If you deploy an 8 in a 3,3,2 formation then a 90 degree turn doesn't put you in a single element column.

There are a few other niceties but given the choice I would always take 3 8s over 4 6s.

Keith · Post by **Keith** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:15 am

I have found that BG's of 8 are good , but as you line up on the enemy , you usually have one base overlap that ends up shooting at a different BG or not at all.
With 6 BG's of 6 I think I can swarm and get more shots off where I want ,the 4 wide BG's of 8 are more resilient , but they have to be as they are unweildy.

At 800 points I could go 5 BG's of 8 , at 600 I will give the 6 BG's of 6 a go.

I seem to be dropping more and more Warriors and adding Chariots and Skirmishers , my poor MF warriors , I have about 80 bases painted

Thanks for the comments .

lawrenceg · Post by **lawrenceg** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:31 am

Play your 600 point list against 600 points of the warriors you are not using.

80 bases sounds a lot. The most I've used in an 800 point list is 48. Mind you, with 80 you could probably fill the table and push those pesky LH skirmish armies off the back edge.

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 9:39 am

IMO there is nothing wrong with 80 bases of MF impact foot. They would be a real handfull for a skirmish army, MF shock troops that fill the table

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:37 am

Tried that agains Phil's Unprotected MF pictish chaps with the Parthians.

End result: 24-1 to the Parthians.

LH skirmish armies like protected MF

hammy · Post by **hammy** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 10:42 am

dave_r wrote:Tried that agains Phil's Unprotected MF pictish chaps with the Parthians.

End result: 24-1 to the Parthians.

LH skirmish armies like protected MF

Phil's MF were unprotected and from what I saw of the battle there weren't 80 bases of them....

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 11:02 am

They were unprotected, but I forgot this and still shot at 4's for the majority of the game anyway...

There were lots of them, so having 80 wouldn't make a difference - just more targets.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:01 pm

for 1 turn you forgot the + for shooting Dave. There were 64 bases of unprotected MF. IIRC 24 bases of Unprotected LF.

Also, Mr Selective Memory

Dave Ruddock's Crafty Parthians 20 - 5 Phil Powell's Dour Picts.

from the MAWS list

Closer than you would give it credit and I really messed up one of my charges. (didn't with 2 BG when I should have but thats a long explanation)

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:05 pm

You have got to exaggerate to make your point.

I did however forget about the shooting at + for about two turns. It might not have made a difference, but I don't know... Phil may have been counting correctly for 3's, but I was looking for 4's.

We started playing at around 8. When I realised I should have been shooting at + it was 10:10.

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:08 pm

And, it wasn't the shooting that did the damage. Your cataphracts accounted for at least 4 BG of MF, I also lost at least 2 BG of my crappy LH, IIRC the only BG lost to shooting was an 8 of LF.

dave_r · Post by **dave_r** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:17 pm

If it hadn't been for the light horse I wouldn't have won the initative roll and made all them MF targets stand in the open for my Catties to get at them

When the Catties made a hole, the MF got isolated, surrounded and gunned down.