Version Control/Primacy

[grahambriggs]

As the rules and lists will be in several formats (electonic and paper) there is a risk that they will differ. For example a change my have been made in an electronic version and the paper equivalent is yet to catch up. I imagine less likely for the rules right now than for army lists. But over time it's quite likely for army lists as Osprey still have stock of the printed version to shift, so a physical v2 looks unlikely, but people may have changes they wish to include in any electronic versions. The same could be true for the rules themselves; once v2 is published any future changes might be captured in the electronic version only.

Will there be a mechanism, other than author discipline, to tie the various instances of the rules together? If not, what should players do when, say, one has a paper version and one the ipad version and they differ? I imagine there'll be umpiring and list checking challenges too.

[IainMcNeil]

Osprey will not be holding any stock of V2.

The printed version is being done in small numbers (effectively print on demand) which makes it very expensive but the only way this ca work.

The digital version will not get updated that often - maybe spelling mistakes might get fixed but rules changes will be limited to probably once per year or its impossible for people to keep up.

[bahdahbum]

The printed version is being done in small numbers (effectively print on demand) which makes it very expensive but the only way this ca work.

Could you remind us of when it should be available ?

[grahambriggs]

Oh right. Well if it's once per year or so for rule changes shouldn't be a problem to sort out version control issues. If it's a small print run rather than true print on demand, folks will need to get orders in as soon as it's available to avoid disappointment.

[madaxeman]

Maybe each time there is a revision to some of the rules a document could be created, perhaps in a commonly available format like .pdf, and made available for download which includes a list of all the changes from the previous version. This would allow owners of the hard copy version stay up to date with the latest iteration of the annually-changing self updating digital version.

I believe this sort of approach has been succesfully tried on a number of previous occasions with wargames rulesets.

[kevinj]

Maybe each time there is a revision to some of the rules a document could be created, perhaps in a commonly available format like .pdf, and made available for download which includes a list of all the changes from the previous version. This would allow owners of the hard copy version stay up to date with the latest iteration of the annually-changing self updating digital version.

This would also be useful to owners of digital versions to identify what has been changed.

[bahdahbum]

and still : when will the book be available .

A PC version is just useless for most of the players , me included . I will not use it when I go outside my home , so give me a BOOK quickly

[Polkovnik]

The printed version is being done in small numbers (effectively print on demand) which makes it very expensive

When you say "very expensive" could you give us some idea about what this is going to cost.

[peterrjohnston]

I would think it easy to do:

1. The electronic version is the "reference", up to date copy, as it can be easily updated/corrected.
2. You date the print version.
3. For the print version, you also have a list of updates/corrections, each given a date when it was made official.

[prb4]

I am sorry but I have to disagree.

I don't own an ipad. Therefore during a game I will only have access to the printed rules.
It would be unacceptable if I was unable to have the "reference" copy of the rules with me.

The printed rules must be the "reference" with any official clarifications that are made. This is the only version that everyone will have access to.

The electronic version is merely an aid for those people who can afford it (and the associated hardware).

[kevinj]

I think it's been made fairly clear that updates will not be issued on an ad hoc basis, one set per year has been mentioned. These can obviously be delivered electronically for those with the PC/Mac/iPad versions and could be made available as a document simultaneously. Then everyone has access to the same set.

[prb4]

As the rules and lists will be in several formats (electonic and paper) there is a risk that they will differ

As Graham rightly pointed out at the beginning of this thread, there is a possibility that the electronic and paper versions could differ.

At this point I don't suppose anybody knows if or how often the paper and electronic versions might differ but if they do there is a potential conflict.

It would be helpful to establish which version is the "master" version now rather than later.

Personnally I would only accept the paper version as the master copy. If the electronic copy was the master version I would have to seriously consider whether or not I would be prepared to enter competitions when I have no access to the rules!

[nikgaukroger]

Personnally I would only accept the paper version as the master copy. If the electronic copy was the master version I would have to seriously consider whether or not I would be prepared to enter competitions when I have no access to the rules!

And I could say the same thing from the opposite side

IMO the reality will be there will be no real issue - but, hey, that isn't as much fun as wild speculation and panic

[madaxeman]

Personnally I would only accept the paper version as the master copy. If the electronic copy was the master version I would have to seriously consider whether or not I would be prepared to enter competitions when I have no access to the rules!

Seriously...?

The risk that you might perhaps maybe just have missed hearing about the publication of an update sheet for your hard copy rules - issued presumably with no warning at all and no discussion on this forum either - immediately prior to a competition, and that the organisers of said competition would not bother to notify competitors such as yourself of such changes, and that having accepted all of that, that one or more of your opponents who was lucky enough to own an ipad would have gotten said update automatically (well, when they last connected it to the internet and selected the option to "update my clunky ebook" anyway given that it appears from the tech support forum that practically everyone only uses their ipads offline), learnt all of the amendments, changed their tactics against you, all assuming that the rules updates were substantial enough to warrant so doing, such that the upset that this unexpected discovery mid-game would cause would be so substantial as to render your enjoyment of what should surely be a weekend of friendly gaming, drinking and curry-eating totally moot.... that infinitesimal chance would put you off entering a competition ever again?

Seriously...?

[ValentinianVictor]

Is'nt this likely to create a 'two-tier' gaming system where 'Tier 1' has access to a portable device they can bring to the table top and have a copy of the most up to date rules, and a 'Tier 2' who only have access to a printed copy and may only get a once a year update and who are therefore disadvantaged when it comes to playing against 'Tier 1' players?

I'm not the slightest bit interested in purchasing an I-Pad or any other tablet device, I may upgrade my Phone to an HTC One X or a Samsung Galaxy III, both of which can act as E-Books but of course they are Android based which the electronic version does not support. And I'm no way, shape or form going to bring my top of the range I7 based laptop to a wargames meet.

No, I'm one of those sad old-timers who actually prefers to have the printed word in my hand rather than a piece of electronic wizardry that can suddenly break down or run out of power at a crucial moment, something I am not aware that paper has been alleged to do!

[kevinj]

The digital version will not get updated that often - maybe spelling mistakes might get fixed but rules changes will be limited to probably once per year or its impossible for people to keep up.

I don't get the paranoia on this. Iain's statement should be sufficient assurance, plus as Tim says, it will be down to tournament organisers to specify which revision of rules will be used.

[nikgaukroger]

Is'nt this likely to create a 'two-tier' gaming system

Not in the real world - but FUD is more fun on a forum

[ValentinianVictor]

Is'nt this likely to create a 'two-tier' gaming system

Not in the real world - but FUD is more fun on a forum

I'm very interested in your opinion Nik, do you feel that there is going to be more interest in Europe in a printed version than an electronic version than there will be in the USA where tablet use is apparently more widespread?

How will the situation be resolved when on one side of the table you have a player who has an I-pad and a digital version of the rules and on the other a player with a paper copy and the I-pad player demands that you can only use the version of his rules as they take precidence?

[madaxeman]

How will the situation be resolved when on one side of the table you have a player who has an I-pad and a digital version of the rules and on the other a player with a paper copy and the I-pad player demands that you can only use the version of his rules as they take precidence?

If amendments have been published before the date of a tourney, and their use is accepted by the tourney organiser, they apply.

If not, they don't.

Whether you've scribbled them into the margins of your hard copy rulebook, tippex-ed out whole sections and scrawled the amendments over the top, stapled the printed set of amendments to your forehead with an industrial staple gun or had them inserted neatly in the flow of text in your ebook by the combined power of magic, the interweb nd your clunky 1970's e-reader software the principle is the same. Published amendments count if agreed by the tourney orgsniser, otherwise they don't

I really don't understand what's changed here?

[ShrubMiK]

Exactamente.

As long as the details of the changes are published in some sort of change/errata list, e.g. as a sticky on this forum...anybody has the possibility of finding out what they are. If they can't be bothered, then they may find out the hard way, when they come up against a change for the first time in a game. Which of course is no different to the situation with V1 (or indeed other rulesets) at the moment.