questions after 2nd game

[micheni1970]

hi again.
after our second game with paris and pptheos some questions arised.
1.) a unit of french hussars fights in combat phase with a british light dragoons regiment. the french wins combat and the british retire passing through a riflemen unit in skirmish formation that is behind them .
the frenchmen pursuit and makes contact with the skirmishers but the fighting takes place in the next round combat phase. the skirmishers reaction is to evade d6+2 so they retire 6 MU .
a. do the skirmishers take cohesion test being passed through by cavalry or the interpenetration is allowed without the need of the cohesion test?
b. the reaction of the newly contacted enemy ( skirmishers ) takes place in the assault phase or the combat phase of the next round
c. what does the french hussars do after the skirmishers ( the new target ) evade as a reaction?

2. in a similar situation the hussars ( this unit killed everything in its path ) assault an artillery battery and the gunners abandon the guns finding rescue in a friendly infantry unit near. do the hussars complete their move and contact the guns with no combat or they stay at their starting position?

3. an artillery unit of the active player takes 1 hit from shooting ( CMT to advance ). can it unlimber/limber freely remaining stationary or it needs a CMT.
to do so

4. page 72" ... if the broken unit either fails to rally or doesnt attempts to rally then it is destroyed and removed from the table."
what does the ...doesnt attempts to rally means ? will ever be a possibility for a player unwilling to recover a broken unit?
thx in advance and thx for a very nice rule set
dimitris

[Blathergut]

I can answer #4 since I had the same question!!!

The unit breaks and routs. If this is in your opponent's turn, then when you come to your active player Recovery Phase, the broken unit either:

-attempts to recover cohesion (because it is within 4MU of a commander who uses his one attempt on them)

or

-it is destroyed because it did not attempt to recover.

(Terry's comment: Broken units get 1 and only 1 attempt to recover, and that will always occur during the owning players first recover phase after the unit is broken.
If the unit is broken in his opponents turn it will make a single move towards it's rear edge during the players movement phase.
It will not burst through other units as part of this move.
It must then attempt to rally or be destroyed.)

[BrettPT]

will ever be a possibility for a player unwilling to recover a broken unit?

Happens all the time. Sometimes you have two broken units and only one commander and have to choose who to let go. Othertimes you decide to let the routers go becuase it is more important for a commander to recover (say) a wavering unit still in the line.

Also because you need a 6+ to rally routers, and only a 5+ to recover cohesion on other units, it is not uncommon to forget about the broken unit as you are unlikely to be able to rally it anyway. I usually don't waste my time trying to rally poor troops routing (unless the commander has nothing else to do), as even if you roll a 6, you have to re-roll it and get a 6 again!

Cheers
Brett

[deadtorius]

a. do the skirmishers take cohesion test being passed through by cavalry or the interpenetration is allowed without the need of the cohesion test?

Page 40 passing through any friendly unit may be performed regardless of facing if either unit is skirmishers or artillery.

Only time you have to make a CMT is if the unit being passed through is from a different command, different division. since you passed through skirmishers no problem.

The skirmishers will evade bugger off. I think the cavalry then follows up in the original direction of their assault and either contacts something or move the full extent of their move and stop and yell out crude insults at the enemy who don't want to fight.

c. what does the french hussars do after the skirmishers ( the new target ) evade as a reaction?

You would think they just make their assault move in the original direction and then stop at the end of their move. If they happen to get real lucky and hit an enemy unit then their super charge ends in a combat.

in a similar situation the hussars ( this unit killed everything in its path ) assault an artillery battery and the gunners abandon the guns finding rescue in a friendly infantry unit near. do the hussars complete their move and contact the guns with no combat or they stay at their starting position?

Once again I think they just contact the guns, as long as they are there you could not attempt to recover the guns and might force the infantry back making it more likely the guns will be destroyed. Educated guess.

an artillery unit of the active player takes 1 hit from shooting ( CMT to advance ). can it unlimber/limber freely remaining stationary or it needs a CMT. to do so

Limbering is simple for med arty and complex for heavy arty, but since it is not an actual move as in you don't change position I would say it would not require a CMT (for medium) till you actually tried to move the guns. Once again an educated guess from looking at the charts.

[terrys]

1.) a unit of french hussars fights in combat phase with a british light dragoons regiment. the french wins combat and the british retire passing through a riflemen unit in skirmish formation that is behind them .
the frenchmen pursuit and makes contact with the skirmishers but the fighting takes place in the next round combat phase. the skirmishers reaction is to evade d6+2 so they retire 6 MU .
a. do the skirmishers take cohesion test being passed through by cavalry or the interpenetration is allowed without the need of the cohesion test?
b. the reaction of the newly contacted enemy ( skirmishers ) takes place in the assault phase or the combat phase of the next round
c. what does the french hussars do after the skirmishers ( the new target ) evade as a reaction?

a) The interpenetration is allowed without needing to test.
b) The skirmisher reaction takes place immediately and they will evade - if they are contacted after the pusuers have moved more than half its pursuit move. If they are contacted during the first half of the pursuers move they will stand and fight immediately.
c) They complete their pursuit move.

Code: Select all

2. in a similar situation the hussars ( this unit killed everything in its path ) assault an artillery battery and the gunners abandon the guns finding rescue in a friendly infantry unit near. do the hussars complete their move and contact the guns with no combat or they stay at their starting position?

Page 31: If the target of the assault or pursuit moves out of range.......
The cavalry may continue their move through the guns, or may wheel towards the nearest target (the square) within 2MU.

3. an artillery unit of the active player takes 1 hit from shooting ( CMT to advance ). can it unlimber/limber freely remaining stationary or it needs a CMT to do so

It can unlimber on the spot without a CMT.

4. page 72" ... if the broken unit either fails to rally or doesnt attempts to rally then it is destroyed and removed from the table." what does the ...doesnt attempts to rally means ? will ever be a possibility for a player unwilling to recover a broken unit?

As stated in the preious posts - Each commander can only recover one unit. If you have more units to recover than you have commanders - and this happens quite often in almost every game, you must make a decision on which of them are the most valuable - in the current situation. I find that I rarely attempt to recover a broken unit because there are usually more useful units in the vicinity - given the 6+ to recover from a route and a 5+ normally. Surrendering 2 or 3 points to your opponent is usually better than surrendering your division.

[micheni1970]

thx deadtorius and terry your answers are clear
some more from todays battle together with pictures will follow soon
dimitris

[pptheos]

Hi all,
A few images to clarify the situation.

A unit of French Hussars, with a cavalry officer attached, moves to attack a unit of British Rifles (light infantry) in skirmish formation.
The British Commander, in an attempt to save the Rifles, moves forward his Light Dragoons.
They interpenetrate through the Rifles and end up infront of them.
The Hussars assault the Light Dragoons. The later countercharge and both units meet in mid-distance.
During the combat face, the Hussars, being superior and having a commander with them, win the Light Dragoons.
The later drop 2 levels and retire 7MU. They end up facing forwards because their retire move is less than their full move capability.
Both units become "spent".
The Hussars pursuit. Their pursuit move takes them on the Rifles.
In fact, their pursuit move is enough to have them reach the Light Dragoons again! (see picture)



This is were things got a little bit complicated. The way we played it is as follows:
1. The Hussars moved into contact with the Rifles.
2. The Rifles evaded 6 MU, interpenetrating through the Light Dragoons. (is this correct?)
3. If I remember well, the Hussars continued their pursuit move and reached the Light Dragoons again. The Later Broke!




Quite a charge!

[deadtorius]

Seems a bad day for the Light Dragoons. It seems some metal or plastic figures are cast with lots of good luck and others are cast with the not so lucky material. Looks like those Frenchies were part of the lucky lot.

[terrys]

This is were things got a little bit complicated. The way we played it is as follows:
1. The Hussars moved into contact with the Rifles.
2. The Rifles evaded 6 MU, interpenetrating through the Light Dragoons. (is this correct?)
3. If I remember well, the Hussars continued their pursuit move and reached the Light Dragoons again.

>> Do the Hussars contact the rifles during the 1st half of their pursuit move ?
a) If they do - the rifles are contacted where they are and another round of combat occurs immediately.
Hussars: 4 dice hitting on 3's
Rifles: 4 dice hitting on 5's
b) If they contact after moving at least half their move distance the rifles must evade (through the light dragoons), with the Hussars hitting the light dragoons, but not fighting the combat until the fllowing player-turn.

[pptheos]

It seems like we played it correctly. Not bad for the 2nd game.

[AlanCutner]

Questions after my first game.

1. At what stage does a commander count as leading a unit? Can he be with, but not leading, a unit during CP allocation, and start leading it during a later stage.
2. A unit in extended line has a target in partially in front of one wing at close range, and another in front of the other wing at medium range. We played this that the first wing shot at close range. The other wing couldn't shoot at medium range because the unit fires as seperate wings at close range only. In this case the 2nd wing couldn't support shoot with the 1st due to position of targets.

Was this correct? If so a simple tactic against EL is to force one wing to fire at close range, with other troops firing at it from medium range. EL effectively loses its firing advantage.

[hazelbark]

1. At what stage does a commander count as leading a unit? Can he be with, but not leading, a unit during CP allocation, and start leading it during a later stage.

Actually this is very clear in the glossary.
p106

Leading = with = contact and vice a versa.

[AlanCutner]

Anyone able to answer my second question?

[deadtorius]

Once he joins it he is leading it, so reduce the command range and put his behind on the line for being shot at or in combat. Only way to not lead a unit is to not be in physical contact with any of the units bases. I found this a very clever rule for keeping your division and corps commanders nearby but not with units. Quite a change from the other FOG rules where commanders want to be with a unit, will take some getting used to keeping them out on their own.

[hazelbark]

2. A unit in extended line has a target in partially in front of one wing at close range, and another in front of the other wing at medium range. We played this that the first wing shot at close range. The other wing couldn't shoot at medium range because the unit fires as seperate wings at close range only. In this case the 2nd wing couldn't support shoot with the 1st due to position of targets.

Was this correct? If so a simple tactic against EL is to force one wing to fire at close range, with other troops firing at it from medium range. EL effectively loses its firing advantage.

Well I see what you have I think there are two options. If the wing with no one at Close cannot fire at a medium range target then it clearly will count for supporting fire.

On p 49 near the very top is count each half as a separate unit when measuring ranges. This could be awkward wording to permit the other half to fire at medium range.

Terry? Mike?

[BrettPT]

I hadn't noticed the reference on page 49 before, it does seem to confuse the issue a bit.

We have always played that extended line does not count as 2 seperate units except at close range, which is what it says under Extended Line on page 51. The Dice Availability table on page 49 also has extended line factors under close range only.

I'm pretty sure that an extended line, with a targets both at close range and at medium range, only fires at the close range target,

But as you say, confirmation of this would be good.

Cheers
Brett

[terrys]

A unit in extended line only fires as 2 units at close range. It therefore can't fire its 2 halves at different ranges.
The half unit will fire at the close range target supported by the half unit not able to fire at anyone else - for a total of 5 dice.