Western Han

JEFFEDBOB · Post by **JEFFEDBOB** » Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:04 pm

Got EOD today

Am trying to put together an early western han list. Would I be better off with my mixed foot units as six armoured at 57pt or eight protected at 60pts? I am in the states and will play a lot out of book. Also are the average heavy chariots worth a go? Very happy
to have the book and overall pleased with the lists.
Thanks for the help Jeff

sadista · Post by **sadista** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 12:33 am

I like them Armoured front rank, protected back rank in 6's with PD

JEFFEDBOB · Post by **JEFFEDBOB** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:02 am

I thought a group had to be the same armour type? If not I like that idea. Thanks

sadista · Post by **sadista** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:28 pm

Yeah unfortunately your right. In which case, are they going to be the troops doing the fighting? In which case I would tend to go armoured.
If they are only used as supporting troops then protected to allow more points into your fighting troops.

I found PD to be great as I use mine to support the Bow/Sw Cav. Opponent thinks twice about charging the Cav know they will evade leaving them to deal with the troops behind caltrops.

jonphilp · Post by **jonphilp** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:11 pm

Per page 95 rules "if shooting at a battle group that has mixed armour classes,the shooters POAs are determined by the front rank armour class of the target......" Must be the same for impact/melee although once the front rank has taken casualties the die rolling will get complicated with differing POA's . It might be easier to keep the armour class the same if you have the points.

Jon

MarkSieber · Post by **MarkSieber** » Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:28 pm

The notes at the end of the book prohibit mixing armor classes in the same BG unless specifically allowed by a list. Alas, this list doesn't.

jonphilp · Post by **jonphilp** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:20 pm

Hi Mark,

I read the army list on page 29 as allowing a mixture of armoured & protected in differing ranks as the 6-8 bases covers all 4 options. Is this correct ?

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:25 pm

jonphilp wrote:Hi Mark,

I read the army list on page 29 as allowing a mixture of armoured & protected in differing ranks as the 6-8 bases covers all 4 options. Is this correct ?

No. Also read the bit about battle groups in how to use the lists

jonphilp · Post by **jonphilp** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:44 pm

Hi Phil,

Thanks for that info I missed it , just another twist taking my Han away from how I understood they operated. Lets see rebase,rebase , redo army list , rethink tactics ... very few contemporary opponents .. back to my Romans & Syracusans(who recently thrashed some Spartans).

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Wed Sep 30, 2009 6:47 pm

jonphilp wrote:Hi Phil,

Thanks for that info I missed it , just another twist taking my Han away from how I understood they operated. Lets see rebase,rebase , redo army list , rethink tactics ... very few contemporary opponents .. back to my Romans & Syracusans(who recently thrashed some Spartans).

Yes, its very rare to have a BG with mixed armour classes. The BG armour is supposed to represent the average within it. Such as some of the later pikes with front rank in plate and back ranks in tights and a doublet. But how F scary would armoured pike be may, I think, be another reason

sergiomonteleone · Post by **sergiomonteleone** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:09 pm

JEFFEDBOB wrote:Got EOD today
Am trying to put together an early western han list. Would I be better off with my mixed foot units as six armoured at 57pt or eight protected at 60pts? I am in the states and will play a lot out of book. Also are the average heavy chariots worth a go? Very happy
to have the book and overall pleased with the lists.
Thanks for the help Jeff

Hi Jeff,
in my opinion it's better using ARMOURED, in particularly if you have unfortunately to fight in open terrain (against Cv you could have at least the same armour).
It could also better to have 1 BG of Spearmen with short spears.
Sergio

philqw78 · Post by **philqw78** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 1:49 pm

Wouldn't bother with average HCh. Too prone to cohesion loss from shooting. Especially in period, where most things shoot. They will normally be at least 3 wide so taking 4 shots, so testing every time at a minus one, failing most times.

JEFFEDBOB · Post by **JEFFEDBOB** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 4:27 pm

Thanks

I will buy them as armoured without the PD to start. I have to try the HCh at least once because I have nice ones, will also buy the armoured
Ospear unit.
Jeff

batesmotel · Post by **batesmotel** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:01 pm

JEFFEDBOB wrote:Thanks
I will buy them as armoured without the PD to start. I have to try the HCh at least once because I have nice ones, will also buy the armoured
Ospear unit.
Jeff

You might want to try using a dedicated unit of LF to screen the HCh. The LF can absorb shooting until the HCh are ready to charge. Then you can either voluntarily withdraw the LF or else just wait until the HCh fail the CMT to not charge through the LF. If you're facing opponets that don't shoot, then the LF can just support the HCh in general.

Since the army doesn't have any other shock troops to crack a hole in the enemy line, the HCh may well be worth having for their punch as long as you make sure to attack in conjunction with supporting troops, especially against MF.

Chris

sergiomonteleone · Post by **sergiomonteleone** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 5:43 pm

JEFFEDBOB wrote:Thanks
I will buy them as armoured without the PD to start. I have to try the HCh at least once because I have nice ones, will also buy the armoured
Ospear unit.
Jeff

Hi Jeff,
my advice is also to try Warring States (they have superior HCH instead of average), and you can have 14-15 BG's (good for an ancient army).
Sergio

JEFFEDBOB · Post by **JEFFEDBOB** » Thu Oct 01, 2009 11:13 pm

sergiomonteleone wrote:
JEFFEDBOB wrote:Thanks
I will buy them as armoured without the PD to start. I have to try the HCh at least once because I have nice ones, will also buy the armoured
Ospear unit.
Jeff
Hi Jeff,
my advice is also to try Warring States (they have superior HCH instead of average), and you can have 14-15 BG's (good for an ancient army).
Sergio

Hi Sergio,
thats a good idea but I really like Liu Bang, also have alot of nice Han Cav. figures so I will stick with early Han and try to make the
average ones work. Will try to post a sample list this weekend, Thanks for the help.
Jeff

sergiomonteleone · Post by **sergiomonteleone** » Fri Oct 02, 2009 3:19 pm

JEFFEDBOB wrote:
Hi Jeff,
my advice is also to try Warring States (they have superior HCH instead of average), and you can have 14-15 BG's (good for an ancient army).
Sergio

Hi Sergio,
thats a good idea but I really like Liu Bang, also have alot of nice Han Cav. figures so I will stick with early Han and try to make the
average ones work. Will try to post a sample list this weekend, Thanks for the help.
Jeff[/quote]

Hi Jeff,
in fact I guess Chinese Han are better figures than Warring States (for example if you have Essex ones: Cavalry with crossbow and infantry with sword are great)
Sergio

sergiomonteleone · Post by **sergiomonteleone** » Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:49 pm

JEFFEDBOB wrote:Hi Sergio,
thats a good idea but I really like Liu Bang, also have alot of nice Han Cav. figures so I will stick with early Han and try to make the
average ones work. Will try to post a sample list this weekend, Thanks for the help.
Jeff

Hi Jeff,I have attaced some photos of my Western Han (figures from Essex, flags fro Little Big Men Studios):

ESSEX LATEST RANGE

ESSEX OLD RANGE

Sergio

Cerberias · Post by **Cerberias** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:35 pm

I would definately use them armoured in groups of six, six is so much more mobile than eights. Able to fit through tight gaps, contract to column from expanded fully in one turn, and vice versa. I also prefer cavalry to heavy chariots because they pack nice punch - not as much as the chariots, but are also slightly more manouverable, and can double as evading skirmishers to harass large infantry armies (doubly so as they have a ZOD range, unlike normal skirmishers).

I run my western han as
5x6 units of armoured close combat infantry backed by crossbowmen.
1x6 unit of armoured offensive spear (anti knight unit mostly)
3x4 drilled armoured cavalry (crossbow/sword)
3x4 protected tribal cav (mostly used as rear support, in column, for the medium infantry, in the impact phase, and then doubling up as extra units to whip around the flank, once the medium foot survive the impact).

Basically the main fight for medium foot against most armies is surviving the impact phase, since most troops will have the plusses in the impact phase, so with rear support + an IC, you can try to stagger the charge and keep units alive during the impact phase. Don't put the IC into the front lines, just have him zipping around to whichever unit needs the +2 modifier to their cohesion for the turn. If a unit breaks, the tribal cav behind the front lines should be able to harass/hit whichever unit pushes through, in the flanks, expecially when the medium foot in groups of sixes, meaning that its more likely for the enemy to be fighting more than one unit at once... meaning that they will be held in place for a flank charge by the tribal cav/another unit of med foot.

Lastly, another benefit to having them in sixes is that you get more units, so your army is bigger

.

Western Han

Western Han

Re: Western Han