FOG II World Team Championship - Rules

[ericdoman1]

I think Swiss system on a team basis could also work.

Each team is ranked by cumulative score (calculated in a similar way as the group stage this time; though I prefer the HOML scoring where only the winning side's routing percentage is considered) and each round 1st team plays against 2nd team, 3rd v. 4th etc. This would indeed encourage each player to maximize their scores even if teammates are winning this round, since the extra score would also determine their team's rank (they may advance multiple ranks if they are performing extra well) and also get carried over in future rounds.

One issue is that it would take too long since you need every player to finish one game before entering into the each round. So maybe resolve more games by having mini-groups based on Swiss system each round. E.g.: each round teams are ranked by cumulative score and first 4 teams are in the same group and fight each other; 5th to 8th teams are in the same group and fight each other. The score results are added to their existing cumulative score for determining the rank of the next round.

A tournament calendar had been agreed upon to allow 2 x HOML (16 weeks), 2 x TDC (24 to 26weeks) and 1 x WTC (14 weeks) tournaments to fit into one year, with a few days where tournaments would overlap. This is probably a fixed schedule now.

I think a Swiss styled tournament is the way to go. Possibly 5 rounds/matches of 18.5 days each. Slitherine tournaments have 10 matches in 10 weeks, HOML has 8 to 24 matches played in 8 weeks and TDC has 7 to 48 matches in 12 weeks. On average WTC gives players more time to complete their games. Hopefully the Slitherine automated system may also be customized so that the WTC can use it. This will help with adjudications.

The adjudication system we had in place for the group stage, worked very well. This will be used again for the next WTC and may well be used for KO stages, if they are preferred

As for scoring. I would not agree on the use of HOML. The reason is that the difference in scores can be huge and could lead to a team being untouchable in the final round. So I would use the Slitherine scoring system OR instead of the "+ 60", maybe something less, for example + 40. This could then lead to more exciting finishes

[LuciusSulla]

I think Swiss system on a team basis could also work.

Each team is ranked by cumulative score (calculated in a similar way as the group stage this time; though I prefer the HOML scoring where only the winning side's routing percentage is considered) and each round 1st team plays against 2nd team, 3rd v. 4th etc. This would indeed encourage each player to maximize their scores even if teammates are winning this round, since the extra score would also determine their team's rank (they may advance multiple ranks if they are performing extra well) and also get carried over in future rounds.

One issue is that it would take too long since you need every player to finish one game before entering into the each round. So maybe resolve more games by having mini-groups based on Swiss system each round. E.g.: each round teams are ranked by cumulative score and first 4 teams are in the same group and fight each other; 5th to 8th teams are in the same group and fight each other. The score results are added to their existing cumulative score for determining the rank of the next round.

A tournament calendar had been agreed upon to allow 2 x HOML (16 weeks), 2 x TDC (24 to 26weeks) and 1 x WTC (14 weeks) tournaments to fit into one year, with a few days where tournaments would overlap. This is probably a fixed schedule now.

I think a Swiss styled tournament is the way to go. Possibly 5 rounds/matches of 18.5 days each. Slitherine tournaments have 10 matches in 10 weeks, HOML has 8 to 24 matches played in 8 weeks and TDC has 7 to 48 matches in 12 weeks. On average WTC gives players more time to complete their games. Hopefully the Slitherine automated system may also be customized so that the WTC can use it. This will help with adjudications.

The adjudication system we had in place for the group stage, worked very well. This will be used again for the next WTC and may well be used for KO stages, if they are preferred

As for scoring. I would not agree on the use of HOML. The reason is that the difference in scores can be huge and could lead to a team being untouchable in the final round. So I would use the Slitherine scoring system OR instead of the "+ 60", maybe something less, for example + 40. This could then lead to more exciting finishes

Makes sense. The only issue I'm thinking of is that HOML scoring with a +40 could result in a draw of 59-59 granting more points than a narrow win. +60 is the minimum to make it even.

I don't really like the official tournament scoring since a 40-15 win is vastly different than a 65-40 win. And the score greatly depends on how many routs you could compress into the last turn that crosses the 25% threshold, which doesn't make sense.

[tyronec]

I think a Swiss styled tournament is the way to go. Possibly 5 rounds/matches of 18.5 days each. Slitherine tournaments have 10 matches in 10 weeks, HOML has 8 to 24 matches played in 8 weeks and TDC has 7 to 48 matches in 12 weeks. On average WTC gives players more time to complete their games. Hopefully the Slitherine automated system may also be customized so that the WTC can use it. This will help with adjudications.

The significant aspect of the timing is that the HOML allows 8 weeks and the TDC 12 weeks to complete each game, with 18.5 days for each game there will be time outs. However with a Swiss competition using a Slitherine style scoring at least the motivation is there for both players to complete games (except possibly in the last round if one team is well ahead) so much preferable to the knock format. Also I think more interest for the teams because there are going to be many more close matches throughout the tournament and more interest for all teams until the end.
I see little likelihood of the Slitherine automated system becoming available to us but great if it did. There might be more prospect of asking Slitherine to run a teams competition where players enter as a team of 4

As for scoring. I would not agree on the use of HOML. The reason is that the difference in scores can be huge and could lead to a team being untouchable in the final round. So I would use the Slitherine scoring system OR instead of the "+ 60", maybe something less, for example + 40. This could then lead to more exciting finishes

I think the HOML system is preferable to the Slitherine one, it benefits the player who wins their game with minimum losses while the Slitherine one benefits the winning player who manages their last turn to cause as many extra routs as possible. This can lead to players extending the game by a turn or two in the hope of gaining a higher score, which is fine if you have the Slitherine automated system but wouldn't be so good in the WTC if the opponent didn't play out their last turn !
I had a look at the scores from the quarter finals and semis of this WTC. Some games there was around 20 points extra if using the HOML scoring, most games would have had similar scores, a few the winner would score less using HOML.

[Karvon]

Are there going to be any changes in the rules or period dates? Would like such info ASAP as it will impact on army picks and planning

Karvon

[ericdoman1]

We are looking into it

Possible period changes and changes to slow play. Also final date of entries and date of live draw

We will be using the Slitherine scoring system for all stages and start date is 10 September

[Lynx57]

Hello, is the presence of a reservist within the teams always required, optional or not necessary?

[ericdoman1]

Not necessary. We hope that all early entrants will play. It could be, if they wish as a reserve or in a ROTW, Europe, Americas or an Asian team. Late entrants, will only play if there is still room in one of the teams, if not he will be placed in the reserve pool. The reserve pool is then available to all teams.

Hope that makes sense.

[Sennacherib]

please count me as a freelance if you miss some players !

[ericdoman1]

A freelance. Do you have any UK & Irish heritage, DNA, have you ever visited the UK before, have you ever had fish and chips or a pint of ale.

Please post in Enties and specify your country as well. You are down as a reserve in one of the French teams. As you are an early entrangt you'll be able to play for a Europe or ROTW team, guaranteed.

[Sennacherib]

A freelance. Do you have any UK & Irish heritage, DNA, have you ever visited the UK before, have you ever had fish and chips or a pint of ale.

Please post in Enties and specify your country as well. You are down as a reserve in one of the French teams. As you are an early entrangt you'll be able to play for a Europe or ROTW team, guaranteed.

i forgot to mention that i will not fight for anglo saxon of course !
i'm french and Italian so Europe and ROTW is OK !
i will be reservist with furor Gallico if i have no team.
A+

[rockmanbob123]

Rockmanbob123 will play for USA/North America,.....PM anders?

[rockmanbob123]

rockmanbob123....if usa/north america not available use my irish/czech roots

[Vadim84]

Hello Eric and the WTC team,


Thank you for taking the time to re-organize a tourney, WTC is fun as we rarely play FOG with other team members.

A question about period 3 (and army-picking in general) :

It ends in 600AD, can we take a list that starts in 600AD (let's imagine "Great Vadimian Hordes, 600-888 AD") ?

Thank you

[ericdoman1]

Hello Eric and the WTC team,


Thank you for taking the time to re-organize a tourney, WTC is fun as we rarely play FOG with other team members.

A question about period 3 (and army-picking in general) :

It ends in 600AD, can we take a list that starts in 600AD (let's imagine "Great Vadimian Hordes, 600-888 AD") ?

Thank you

Yes

[ericdoman1]

Greetings Gentlemen

We would require, team names, emblems, captains and players to be posted in https://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116186

PLease post them as soon as possible (ASAP) as they will be needed when we know of the date of the LIve Draw.

The ive draw takes place on 9th Setember 16.30 CEST.

We would require, who plays what before the 10th September.

These are to be sent to us privately via private message.

For WTC 2024, we will have 16 teams

World Team Championship - 3 x UK & Ireland teams, 2 x French, 2 x USA, 3 x Chinese, 2 x Italian, 1 x New Zealand , 1 x Spanish and 2 x ROTW.

16 teams in total.

Group Stage

We will have 3 rounds, all games to be played in 5 weeks

Only 1 team from one nation will play in each group of 4 teams. So you will not have 2 or even 3 teams of the same nation playing in the same group.

10th September to 15th October

Top 2 go through to the quarter finals.

Knockout Stage

Quarter Final

17th October to 5 November

Semi Final

7 November to 26 November

Final

28 November to 17 December

Cheers

Mike, Angus, Ander and Eric
Top

[Infinitude]

The timer on the Slitherine tournament games works well. Could it be applied to the WTC?

[ericdoman1]

Hi Steve

We have been asking for months (1 to 2 years) but not sure if it will. Ideally we would need community players who are software programmers and who would have some understanding of the system Slitheine uses.

I personally think it can be used with a bit/lot of tweeking. Maybe asking the right questions

Mike/Triarii and Chris/batesmotel had been lookig into it.

[Karvon]

I think the simpler solution probably would be if they added a chess clock option for MP games, which could be ticked like ranked or mirrored matches. This would address this issue without them having to mess around with an event specific tweaking of the servers. I'd be surprised if they were open to third parties tinkering with their proprietary code directly. I've posted this wish before in the development thread; maybe some day?

Karvon