Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[Ceek]

The mod is hardly dead. In fact, one of the keys to its long life and success has been McGuba's careful curation of each update. This mod has been served just as well by the modifications he hasn't made as by those he has. I hope he continues to exercise his judiciousness and restraint in making future updates.

[McGuba]

Stavanger Norway should be heavily fortified like Bergen. It was one of the most heavily fortified locations to protect all of the radar installations and the airfield.

Ok, thanks, I will double check it.

Looks like Battlefield: Europe MOD v1.8 topic is almost dead

The mod is hardly dead. In fact, one of the keys to its long life and success has been McGuba's careful curation of each update. This mod has been served just as well by the modifications he hasn't made as by those he has. I hope he continues to exercise his judiciousness and restraint in making future updates.

Hell, yeah, it is far from being dead. I am just taking a little break from modding PzC, as I think v1.8 is fairly good at the moment. At least I do not seem to get many complaints for bugs and stuff. "If it aint broken, dont fix it!" I did make a few changes though, mainly graphical ones, but these do not justify a new update. But I intend to make a new release at some point in the future.

[Yrfin]

ok, McCuba back ! Long live BF:E 2.0 !

[Yrfin]

"If it aint broken, dont fix it!"

Id like this philisophy

[Mountaineer]

I read your comments on the Bismark and still think we need the opportunity to employ her.

[Ceek]

I agree w/ Mountaineer that it would be a fun addition to the Low Countries scenario to recreate it w/ a larger map that simulates the simultaneous fleet actions in the Atlantic and the prestige-generating model of convoy raiding from the Barbarossa scenario but with the challenge of trying to keep the Prinz Eugen and Bismarck afloat against daunting odds. I also think that scenario more generally could be due for a renovation. As it is its a bit tedious and the scale of the map coupled with the number of units makes it feel more like trench than a blitzkrieg.

All that said, I've always considered those early scenarios a bit of a sideshow to the main event, and totally would understand (and probably prefer) that McGuba keep his attention on continuing to refine Barbarossa.

[empedocles]

Hi all.

First of all I want to say that this mod is AWESOME. My thanks goes to everyone that made this possible. Incredible job!

I have a problem though, although it may be intentional. Here's my situation in the 1941 Barbarrossa scenario:

I decided to focus in the Caucasus and Leningrad. By late 1941 I conquered Leningrad and started 1942 with great expectations. During 1942 I managed to both conquer the whole Caucasus (except stalingrad) and Moscow (with the remaining army of Leningrad). However, I am now playing in May 1943 and the soviets just keep sending reinforcements through Kursk aiming at Moscow.
I did a little cheat using Fog of War and saw that they have several units just waiting for my line to break (which is very close indeed).

In one of the messages it said that capturing the big cities would cripple the reds production but the effects would be saw in the long run. My question is, exactly how long?

In the west things went sour and I am about to loose Tunisia. Malta is still in full swing and I am not ready at all to defend Italy from an invasion in mid 1943.

Prestige is always low (I start with 800 every turn) which is not near enough to buy a Panzer IV after all the reinforcements.

Any suggestions? So far this has bee one of the most enjoyable mods out there.
Goodbye!

[GeneralWerner]

Hello,
yes this mod is awesome. And it is tough, very tough and with V1.8 even tougher again. After 41 there is no easy going anymore.

Your strategy is interesting. Why did you go for Leningrad and not for Moscow? But you have now achieved a good base for the second part of the war by capturing Leningrad, Moscow and even the Caucasus. You should survive winter 43/44 Autumn 43 the Panthers are coming. That will make it easier against the "endless" number of Red Army tanks.

Loosing Tunis will mean to loose some prestige but with the Caucasus you have two oilfields and 700 to 800 prestige per round is a good result. You could defend Sicily or later Italy. The mod will give you some Italian troops and with some additional good mountaineers, armored artillery (Stugs; they will be bombarded by Allied battleships ever round) you can hold Italy for a long time. If you have still an Italian fleet do not loose it. It can help in the defense of Italy.

I still see a good chance for a victory in the east if you have not lost too many experienced troops (especially the III and IV tanks) in Russia.

My opinion is that buying a new Panzer III or IV division is a waste of prestige. Upgrade your experienced tanks. A IIIM or IVH with 2 or even 3 stars is a powerful unit, a new IVH with 0 stars is a victim. A Panther or Tiger with 2 stars is awesome and you can start to payback for all the years the T34s hunted your tanks Same for anti tank units. I would only buy new units of type anti air, artillery or infantry (if you need to secure a city).

[McGuba]

In one of the messages it said that capturing the big cities would cripple the reds production but the effects would be saw in the long run. My question is, exactly how long?

Many new Soviet reinforcement units only appear at a given time if a certain important victory objective is in Soviet hands. However, as most of those units appear in the Ural mountains area they need some time, depending on their speed, to reach the frontline, so I guess many of those units that you can see appeared BEFORE you took Moscow or the Caucasus. It can take anything between 5-10-15 turns for those units which appeared before you took the important objectives to reach the frontline, so it is impossible to say exactly how long it will take to feel the positive effect, but eventually you will. To make things even worse, if you capture any of those important objectives a few new Soviet units will spawn immediately with orders to try to recapture it. Although these are really just a few you might be seeing some of them as well.

Also note that capturing all those important objectives will not completely hinder Soviet production, just significantly reduce. Additionally, it does not really affect the arrival of Western Allied equipment through Land Lease aid.

Prestige is always low (I start with 800 every turn) which is not near enough to buy a Panzer IV after all the reinforcements.

800 prestige per turn is quite good, by the way. When doing reinforcements you should be careful when to use elite reinforcements - in most cases you should only use the much more cheaper green reinforcements to save prestige. I usually only use elite reinforcements for cheaper units like infantry with no transport and sometimes for crutial units like some tanks, fighters or AT, but not always.

In general, I think upgrades to more modern equipment are more important than elite replacements. From mid 1943 the Panther becomes available and in this mod the Pz.III and the Panther are in the same upgrade family making it a very cost effective upgrade. However, the first version of the Panther has some teething problems reflected by its low fuel so you might want to wait a bit for the more reliable later versions (with longer range). For reference on availability times you can always check the unit upgrade charts in the in-game library section.

[empedocles]

Thanks to both of you for taking the time to answer.

Indeed I have been able to hold the soviet push and I am starting to destroy some of their units here and there.
By August 1943 I only lost half of Sicily and the Italian navy is down to 4 units but it keep on the fighting.
The air battle over France is also doing pretty good but I am loosing the Balkans to those pesky partisans.
Again, great mod. One of the best ones I played across all games.

[McGuba]

Fine then. Please keep us informed on your progress. I am very interested on how first time players might perform. Current experience shows that most players fail to achieve any kind of victory on their first play through. But they usually perform much better in any later replays.

[empedocles]

Sure. Will do. It's November 43 now and Sicily is lost and the americans are starting to probe the Gustav line. The Italian surrender script was pretty cool.
Air battle over France is kind of won as my fighters keep on repelling attacks and none city in Germany has been bombarded in more than 15 turns.

Some notes/possible bugs:
Capturing Stalingrad didn't trigger any event. Is that ok? The city was an important hub for transport and its significance was important. Maybe it wasn’t as important as Leningrad, Moscow or Kiev but it surely comes 4th.
Another glitch seems to be related to the Rumanian Oil Field. I got bombed once and lost 200 points, then I shot down the plane. Now, the message keeps appearing and there is no enemy plane there. Maybe a bug? By the way, 200 points seems a lot if I hold the Caucasus, maybe you can tweak it so that if the player holds the Caucasus, that script does not appear.

The rest looks excellent as always.

[Yrfin]

Now another use for the switch button to solve an issue that does not exist with vanilla scenarios but that may appear in a huge map with a huge number of turns : the fuel limit of the ships. Once they run out of fuel at sea, there is nothing to be done. Except one thing : to create clones with 0 fuel (unlimited), very slow, low initiative, possibly with reduced stats to compensate for the unlimited fuel, and use these in case your ship runs out of fuel to get back to port. The idea behind is that the ship is saling at the most economical speed and uses it's fuel reserve to get back (you might also use it to economize the fuel anytime) or even that it is drawn back to port by another ship, etc.

[Intenso82]

tow ship mode)

Now another use for the switch button to solve an issue that does not exist with vanilla scenarios but that may appear in a huge map with a huge number of turns : the fuel limit of the ships. Once they run out of fuel at sea, there is nothing to be done. Except one thing : to create clones with 0 fuel (unlimited), very slow, low initiative, possibly with reduced stats to compensate for the unlimited fuel, and use these in case your ship runs out of fuel to get back to port. The idea behind is that the ship is saling at the most economical speed and uses it's fuel reserve to get back (you might also use it to economize the fuel anytime) or even that it is drawn back to port by another ship, etc.

[Yrfin]

tow ship mode)

??? tow
Whats does its means ?

[McGuba]

Capturing Stalingrad didn't trigger any event. Is that ok? The city was an important hub for transport and its significance was important. Maybe it wasn’t as important as Leningrad, Moscow or Kiev but it surely comes 4th.

This one comes up over and over again... Unfortunately I have no more AI zones to add to Stalingrad.

Another glitch seems to be related to the Rumanian Oil Field. I got bombed once and lost 200 points, then I shot down the plane. Now, the message keeps appearing and there is no enemy plane there. Maybe a bug?

Yes, kind of. I will try to fix it in the next version. Again, it is in connection with the limited number of AI zones.

tow ship mode)

Yeah, I get it. However, it did not really happen in reality, at least not with battleships. Interesting idea, by the way.

[Intenso82]

tow ship mode)

??? tow
Whats does its means ?

"or even that it is drawn back to port by another ship" - tow ship

[empedocles]

Capturing Stalingrad didn't trigger any event. Is that ok? The city was an important hub for transport and its significance was important. Maybe it wasn’t as important as Leningrad, Moscow or Kiev but it surely comes 4th.

This one comes up over and over again... Unfortunately I have no more AI zones to add to Stalingrad.

What about adding many many victory hexes just on the other side of the volga? Player would conquer them after destroying the armies in the city and the prestige that comes with those hexes would be his reward. I'm not sure how the AI would react to having many victory hexes together.

[doctorwillow]

Hello to all and especially to you McGuba!

First, thank you for your great mod. Currently, it's taking a lot of my free time.

This is my first appereance on Slit.forum. I am playing, with some pauses, PzC for years, with some mods, but yours is real discovery and a tresure for me and I am reading this tread from beginning to learn as much as possible about mod.

I have some question about it...

1. How many core slots from beginning of campaign are there in v 1.8? Can not find the answer (I read for now first 30 and last 10 pages of the thread) except that in previous versions there was 9 of them and I have only 7 in 1.8. (I didn't play erlier versions)

2. Are there some similar mods like Battlefield Europe (grand scale? BNC made some if I am correct; I am also reading others threds ? What are main differences between your mod and Epic 1941 scenario (Epic 1941 is for singleplayer also? Isn't it?)

3. Why some units are so insanely strong? For exemple: Polish fighter in first scenario was destroying my fighters (I attacked it in one turn with 3 Meser 109 and lost 10 points, 2x3 and 1x4, and he, not a scrach). And after, he singlhandedly shot down russian fighter (the better one).

4. English subs are so f... stronger then italian destroyers. Only one english sub can tear apart half of may italian fleet (maybe it is about dices, but I doubt). What should be adequate strategy against them? Without tac bombers I mean. They more often miss then hit the sub. At least in my campaign. Also, english havy and light cruisers are stronger or at least even with my italien battleships. It is pretty annoying. You said, if I'm correct, in one comment, that this is because AI is not to smart. Why don't you simply put more alied units on the map insted. It seems in 1.8. version italian navy is not of great use even it was in real life still rather potent in 1941.(no tactics pays off „to much“, as for example hit and run). I tried to atack Malta with navy, after I sunked english ships with planes, but didn't make a scratch on the fort and sufferd horrible loses from coastal bateries.

5. Wurzburg radar is giving plus one initiative for german fighters. If I put three W radars in proximity and a fighter above them, will my fighter then have plus three initiative? And one general question, in clash with enemy unit, is the result the same if I have initiative+1 or +4 higher then oponent or it is better to have as much is posible higher initiative
.
6. Why am I losing 50 PP per allied bomber over german city marked with + when there is bad weather. I mean, bombers can attack the city and I lose PP, but I can not defend it neither with AA guns neither with fighters.

7. Do the western Alies have separate income from Russians, or do they have it common? I mean, if Russians for example lose their caucasian oil fields, shall they have less reinforcements or Russians and Western Alies together will have less reinforcement?


Will you make some new versions? If yes, may I give some sugestions...
1. Make small calibre AA much, much stronger against soft targets, especially on open ground. From my knowledge and professional expirience, they are/were real death reaper for infantry in real life (although, most modern armies today don't use AA canons any more but rocket sistems, but before, they were used with great succes against infantry)
2. Include the Dora gun for Germans
3. Sorry, but it is kind a stupid that higher initiative counts in ambushes... Could that be changed? If someone enters into ambush, he fires second.
4. Can you incorporate some croatian volunteers unit for eastern front? Croatia had Flying Legion (1 fighter and 1 bomber wing with 360 crewmen, maybe enough for one Bf 110D unit, because it can act as a fighter and as a bomber) and Naval Legion (for Black sea) on eastern front, and also terrestrial unit in German army (German Croatian legion, lost mostly at Stalingrad) and terrestrial unit in Italian component for eastern front (Italian Croatian legion). So maybe with both legions personnel, there could be enough soldiers for one unit. If not, ok.
There were also 3 german-croatian division of Wehrmacht raised 1942-43 for eastern front, but they served in Croatia for antipartisan dutys; and I don't mean SS divisions. (You have sole Division Azul as a whole unit for example)
Three inf units in Croatia are regular Cro Army I presume.

As I understood, you are paying a lot to historicity but you don't want SS formation in mod. This way, you took a lot of units from german armed forces (there was about 1 000 000 Waffen SS soldiers at the end of the war). Can you, for example, put some elite units/formations instead (Großdeutschland division, Panzer Lehr division.... or some elite panzer or Luftwaffe formations that would have better traits then usual; like you put Decima Flottiglia MAS - and as for them, what is special about their 4th mod?). The same for Allies (13. DBLE of French Foreign Legion that distinguished itself in desert at Bir Hakeim, or American „Eagle Squadrons“ in RAF)
There was also around 600 000 eastern volunteers of Wehrmacht, Hilfswilliger or Hiwi (for exemple corps of general Vlasov). Maybe you can find some "slot" for them.

Thank you once again for your awesome mod and for any new ones that you will maybe create. And I apologize if I asked some stupid question...

[McGuba]

1. There are 7 core slots in v1.8 in the early scenarios. In previous versions there were more but I decided to reduce it so that players can start the big scenario with a more equal chance (i.e. less variation in the core army).

2. Sparatacus' 1941 scenario is similar to BE in many ways. Actually it was one of the main inspirations for me to make a grand scenario. First its map is smaller, about half the size. Also that one only uses vanilla units from the base game and there are no additional modded units if I remember well. "1941" has less historical events and scripts. However, that one is well suited for multiplayer, while I just have not have the time to make BE multiplayer compatible. Some players tried BE in multi, but it is way too unbalanced as the Allied (AI) side has much more resources, just as historically. Historically the Allies produced four times more aircraft and tanks and had a lot more soldiers and oil and money and everything than the Axis and it is well reflected in my mod. In "1941" the the two sides are more balanced which better suits multiplayer game.

Apart from BNC's grand scenarios there is Akkula's Soviet Storm mod, which includes a grand Great Patriotic War, playable from the Soviet side.

Another similar Soviet grand strategy mod is currently under development by Intenso82.

3. It had to be bad luck. Very bad luck. If you try again, I am pretty sure you will get better results. But, despite popular belief, Polish Air Force was not that bad in WW2 as they are often depicted in games. They were well trained and highly motivated. Despite flying outdated planes and being outnumbered, they managed to achieve a nearly 1 to 1 kill to loss ratio against the Luftwaffe.

4. Historically the Italian Navy (Regia Marina) did not really shine in WW2 against the Royal Navy. There were many reasons, e.g. Italian warships had no radar for a long time, and even then their radars were inferior to the British ones. For example on one occasion British destroyers managed to sink two Italian cruisers with torpedoes at night using their radars and attacking with the land behind their back.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cape_Bon_(1941)

Also, the British had better training, better morale, better intelligence (they could read coded Italian messages while the Italians could not), and in general their ships were better protected (most Italian cruisers sacrificed armour for more speed).

These are all reflected in the different stats and the lower experience of the Italian ships.

I do not want to put more but weaker Allied ships on the map as the current numbers reflect historical numbers and ratios.

Historically the Italian Navy was pretty much obliterated by 1943, losing most of its destroyers, cruisers and submarines. Only the battleships survived intact, but there was no fuel for them.

To maximize the effectiveness of the Italian navy in this mod you should attack British destroyers with Italian capital ships from a distance, then first weaken enemy battleships and cruisers with Axis submarines and bombers. It is important to weaken the Allied ships first as the AI is not smart enough to move its ships to ports for repair. Weakened British ships are then much more vulnerable to the Italian surface ships.

Against enemy submarines tactical bombers are the best. Again, once they are weakened either by bombers or destroyers, they are easier to destroy. And as the AI would not repair them, players can afford losing more destroyers to weaken enemy submarines and then repair the destroyers in home ports.

Even then there will be heavy losses and there is a good chance that the Italian navy will be mostly sunk by 1943, just as historically. But if they can effectively support landings and land operations by then it does not really matter.

Malta should be bombed to submission by tactical bombers. The Ju 87 Stuka with the hero Rudel is the best unit to do so. You just need to transfer it to the Med and provide enough fighter protection. That will do the trick. Historically, the Luftwaffe never took the bombing of Malta seriously enough. They always transfered their bombers to another front just as Malta was on the verge of collapse and left it to the Italians to finish the job but they were unable to do so.

5. Yes, each Würzburg should give +1 ini to any Axis fighter within its range of 3 hexes. More radars can give more ini bonus. You can check it with the battle predicion with the Ctr+left click.

sample1.jpg (165.87 KiB) Viewed 3847 times

6. It cannot be avoided by scripting as rain comes random and is not connected with the scripts. But you only get it in rain, not during the winter months when it is snowing. It should not happen too often, unless you are very unlucky or do not keep the number of enemy bombers low all the time. One could say that those bombers should be destroyed in good weather before the rain comes.

7. If the Soviets loss the Caucasus they will get less reinforcements after a while. It does not affect the Western Allies as they have their own oil fields in the Middle East and in the US.

the rest:
1. Small calibre AA much, much stronger against soft targets: I also find them a bit weak, but would not make them much stronger as their primary goal should be to destroy enemy aircraft. If I give them way too high soft attack players would mainly use these against ground targets which would not be historically accurate as it was only their secondary role. So one has to be careful here, but I can imagine a little increase.
2. Dora gun: there were too few of these to be included in this mod as a seperate unit. Remember that one artillery unit represents about 1.000 artillery guns in the mod. The current Karl-Gerat unit symbolises all the very heavy artillery that the Germans had, including the Dora guns.
3. Initiative in ambushes: I cannot modify game mechanics. It is all hard coded and cannot be modded without hacking the game.
4. More Croatian units: normally in the mod one infantry unit represents 2-3 infantry divisions or an army corps with 30.000-40.000 men. Even then there are some exceptions, for example the Spanish Blue Divison represents a single divison with 20.000 men. As far as I know the Croat legions were less numerous, the Italian-Croat Legion was two-battalion strong, subordindated to the Italian 3rd Mobile Division. The German-Croat Legion was a three-battalion infantry regiment with an artillery battalion. Even if combined these do not make up even for a single three-regiment division and that's why I did not add them. The majority of the Croat forces were used in the Balkans against the partisans. I can possibly add another Croat infantry unit though, to represent those 3 German-Croat divisons raised in 42-43 and used in the Balkans. I think most players would welcome it as the partisans are getting stronger as well from that time. Or alternatively can be sent to any frontline and used there.

Even though I understand your reasoning, I would not give Bf 110 to the Croats as they flew the Bf 109 and the Do 17 in the east. The main problem here is that the Minor Axis air forces are already somewhat over represented in the mod at the current scale. Even though they represent the whole air forces of those nations and not only those few squadrons that were actually used in the east. Basically I fear that giving even more would further distort the Minor Axis air units vs. Luftwaffe ratio. If I give Croat air unit(s), to make it fair, I should also add Slovak and Bulgarian ones. Then I would need to add more Lufwaffe units to compensate and then even more Allied air units to compensate for all the above. In the end there would be a lot more air units in the mod significantly changing the balance and playability. Italy, Hungary, Romania and Finland were the main Axis allies in Europe, who had significant numbers of tanks, aircraft, home production, etc. and a more or less independent government and at this scale I only chose them to have the full range of units in the mod.

Regarding SS/elite units: basically all those "elite" units which are added after 1941, with or without a hero, can be regarded as new SS units. Just as some good units with 200 or more experience in turn 1. However, the basic assumption of this mod is that the Führer is removed from power in 1941 (otherwise how would the player gain full control over the Axis armies?) and after that there might not be more SS units raised. I would like to leave it to the players' imagination/interpretation to decide which one applies but there will be no direct referencies to SS or other Nazi formations in this mod.

Obviously there were many other special units in WW2 but it is not possible to add them all at this scale. Not even most of them. I did add some like Brandenburgers or British commandoes but at this scale it is simply not possible to add many more as the map would be full of units and there would be no room to maneuver.

As far as I know Hiwis were mainly used in support role and only rarely used in the frontline. In most cases they were subordinated to standard Wehrmacht divisions. As such they supposed to be part of the reinforcements given to German units after 1942/43. Some historical units recruited from the occupied parts of the USSR such as the Kosaken cavalry or the Latvian Legion does appear, though.