Kreigsmarine Western Approaches. MINES BROKEN

[Narcot1ck]

I have been a staunch supporter of this game simply because I feel that it is a field that is under represented in modern gaming. I liked a lot of the new ideas incorporated in this game and it really felt like a throw back to Koei's PTO and Panzer General. That being said there are a few problems with this game that are quickly turning a W into a solid L in my opinion. The latest of these issues being naval mines in general. It seems like an awful idea to incorporate naval mines in the Western Approaches scenario into the secondary goals (thank god its not a primary) because they are so clearly BROKEN. I am quite skilled at these games and I can assure you the failure of naval mines to work is not due to my inexperience in how to employ them. The problem squarely lies with the ability of the enemy to deftly tip toe around them at every possible junction coupled with the ABSOLUTE LACK of damage potential offered by them. This is so obviously broken and the complete absence of a quick patch to either remove and replace this as a goal or totally change the way naval mines work completely is irritating in the extreme. I can live with other problems, like the ridiculous treatment of submarines, because generally I can still complete everything that's necessary but to pigeon hole the entire community into using such a broken mechanic in order to complete goals is ludicrous. Please, please, please fix this issue and STAT!

[Horst]

Mines have always been doing 1 damage while they receive like 2-3 in return when stumbling upon them IIRC.
How much damage should they rather do? 5-1 damage against unit strength 10-1?

[Narcot1ck]

Its not so much that I disagree with the amount of damage they do, its more that they usually do 0 damage for me (now on military vessels it works but on supply ships is has not for me); even on higher difficulty. Its so incredibly difficult to get the computer to run into them in the first place so that when they finally actually do, the 0 damage is a slap in the face. The computer seemingly knows where they are placed at all times and this is the main gripe I have with the way mines work. I have been meticulous about making sure there aren't any spotter planes or other units that could possibly spot them but somehow they always divert at the last minute to miss them. I've tried so many different times with different layouts and moves and I can never manage to score 2 damage. I've managed 1 but never more. Another thought on the damage potential. They are rather difficult to employ given that a ship/airplane has to be stationary so I do think a slight damage adjustment to maybe 2-3 damage would not be a bad thing. I hardly think that it would become overpowered with that adjustment given the difficulty of deployment. So either change the avoidance mechanism with the computer AI or raise the damage potential. Either one would fix the issue.

[Horst]

Hah, now I know what's wrong: it looks like the mine damage works similar like the artillery one now. The artillery damage was toned down not long ago before the KM release. Artillery damage now rather only damages against full-strength units while doing only decimal-fraction scratches versus 1-strength.
Yes okay, I totally agree that such artillery damage-like mechanic shouldn't apply to mines at all!
I haven't played the KM campaign yet, that's why I hadn't noticed that flaw yet with 1-strength units.

[Andy2012]

Its not so much that I disagree with the amount of damage they do, its more that they usually do 0 damage for me (now on military vessels it works but on supply ships is has not for me); even on higher difficulty. Its so incredibly difficult to get the computer to run into them in the first place so that when they finally actually do, the 0 damage is a slap in the face. The computer seemingly knows where they are placed at all times and this is the main gripe I have with the way mines work. I have been meticulous about making sure there aren't any spotter planes or other units that could possibly spot them but somehow they always divert at the last minute to miss them. I've tried so many different times with different layouts and moves and I can never manage to score 2 damage. I've managed 1 but never more. Another thought on the damage potential. They are rather difficult to employ given that a ship/airplane has to be stationary so I do think a slight damage adjustment to maybe 2-3 damage would not be a bad thing. I hardly think that it would become overpowered with that adjustment given the difficulty of deployment. So either change the avoidance mechanism with the computer AI or raise the damage potential. Either one would fix the issue.

Yeah, you have to predict their movement patterns in a quite ridiculous way and form a layered minefield in their path. Start this early on, send your Ju88s along the southern edge of the map to avoid the Hurricanes (and have your ships weaken them, or your Me109s).
I agree, this is not fun.

[Narcot1ck]

Yeah you certainly do but I've even watched replays and done the exact moves of people that have completed the goal and it hasn't worked out. Its kind of weird. I immediately get my ju88s out there in the exact manner that you listed but usually what happens is they manage to hit one mine (which is difficult) but at that point they avoid the rest and then its difficult to set anymore because of the cooldown and placement.

[kverdon]

Yep, I've seen this as well. I went and tried this again and after leaving a entrapping minefield, it took 20 extra turns for the ships to accumulate 2 damage points. (Boom! 0 Damage, Boom! 0 Damage!). Very Frustrating.

[Horst]

Heh, it's hard to believe that no one during beta testing noticed that issue. We already enjoyed two quick updates thanks to the new auto-update feature in the first week of release, and maybe get another one sooner or later. Let's see...