***[MOD] RUSSIA AT WAR:1941

[hugh2711]

sent

[Intenso82]

I would like to explain two moment.

1. Do not forget to specify these settings when starting the campaign.


2. VICTORY CONDITION in DEMO version.
The primary victory points are indicated by a Red star.
Secondary victory points are not used to determine the winner.
VP is:
"Hold Murmansk, Kandalaksha, Smolensk, Roslavl, Luga, Novgorod, Narva, Kiev, Odessa. on the last turn."
PS. In the demo version there were a few event messages about victory points Moscow, Leningrad, etc. From the version for 49 turns. But it's just that I forgot to remove.

[hugh2711]

"...From the version for 49 turns..."

is this downloadable yet? thanks

[Intenso82]

"...From the version for 49 turns..."

is this downloadable yet? thanks

I sent you a link to download the version in 49 turns.
In addition to the number of turns, it is almost the same as the version in 20 turns.
But I added protection of the enemy territory from the invasion of player single units.
You can test

If someone needs it, I can send the link.

[Intenso82]

Thanks guille1434 for STZ-5 icon
http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtop ... 60#p654955
now I have a sufficient set of icons for soviet transport.
And I can make more historical proportions for the types of transport for Soviet side.

And also completely rework the transport system for the Soviet side.

[hugh2711]

have just sent you a last save and report on a 49 turn game

[guille1434]

Intenso: My pleasure to be able to help! I uploaded an improved icon for the STZ-5. taking note of your suggestions. Also a STAVKA Hq building...
Thanks for thew feedback!

[Intenso82]

STAVKA HQ

The STAVKA High Command. Icon made by Guille, but I removed the barbed wire.
Command is from here.
Therefore, while this unit is located in Moscow, it generates some amount of prestige per turn.
But if you move it from Moscow or evacuate, there will be no additional prestige.
If a unit is lost, there will be a big penalty to prestige.
The unit also coordinates the air defense system (PVO) in Moscow and has a Radar trait(+1 Ini within Moscow).

What do you think, looks ok or too gloomy?

[guille1434]

I think it looks about right... Good thing you removed the barbed wire barrier. Good modding work!

[uzbek2012]

STAVKA HQ


What do you think, looks ok or too gloomy?

Больше похожа эта ставка на Брестская крепость , а в Москве лучше кремль нарисовать ?

More like this rate on the fortress Brestintourist., and in Moscow the Kremlin to draw ?

http://posmotrim.by/article/brestskaya_krepost1.html

[Intenso82]

More like this rate on the fortress Brestintourist., and in Moscow the Kremlin to draw ?

As the Brest Fortress is good, but then we need to paint in the color of red brick.

Sov_Stavka_Hq-green.png (17.03 KiB) Viewed 5588 times

The fact is that this unit can be moved by train.
With the Kremlin icon it's hard to do

And if so ?

88.jpg (9.69 KiB) Viewed 5588 times

[guille1434]

Here is a more compat version of the HQ, which obscures a smaller part of the hex is based on...

[uzbek2012]

More like this rate on the fortress Brestintourist., and in Moscow the Kremlin to draw ?

As the Brest Fortress is good, but then we need to paint in the color of red brick.

Sov_Stavka_Hq-green.png

The fact is that this unit can be moved by train.
With the Kremlin icon it's hard to do

And if so ?

88.jpg

Красиво ) Жаль что вы не делаете мод про вторжение в США

Beautiful ) it is a Pity that you don't do a mod about the invasion of USA

[Intenso82]

Here is a more compat version of the HQ, which obscures a smaller part of the hex is based on...

Looks better?

[Intenso82]

Finished working on the transport system.
Ranked all the tranport means by type and load-carrying capacity.
And made the conformity of the carrying capacity of vehicles to the weight of the weapons platforms.
And also made a limitation on the historical availability and limitations for improving the gameplay.
This was a very interesting experience.

Since I love statistics.
Now I'm studying military production rate during this period of the war.
By years and by months. And the number of units for Soviet mobilization.
I take information from different sources.
I hope this will greatly affect to this mod.
This is also quite interesting

[McGuba]

The fact is that this unit can be moved by train.
With the Kremlin icon it's hard to do

Well, to be honest, I do not really understand how could anyone transfer a large concrete bunker to anywhere. If you really want to add a HQ which can be transfered it should be a more mobile one, I think. Seeing a concrete bunker unit in the middle of Moscow looks a bit off, by the way.

I think the main problem with HQ units in PzC is that they can add very little bonus to the surrounding units. Really, 'radar' is the only trait that can have some meaningful effect, but it is very insignificant. Some other bonus effects can be added by scripts, of course, but it is limited to certain AI zones which does not really help the mobile HQ unit concept as AI zones are fixed throughout the scenario.

Now I'm studying military production rate during this period of the war.
By years and by months. And the number of units for Soviet mobilization.

Yes, I also found these very interesting. Especially the fact that even though the USSR almost always suffered heavier losses, it still managed to gradually increase the number of its tanks, guns, aircraft, etc. compared to the Germans, who only struggled to maintain their original strength. Which made me think that the outcome of the war was decided in the factories and not on the battlefields.

[Intenso82]

Well, to be honest, I do not really understand how could anyone transfer a large concrete bunker to anywhere. If you really want to add a HQ which can be transfered it should be a more mobile one, I think. Seeing a concrete bunker unit in the middle of Moscow looks a bit off, by the way.

We are still in search of a solution for HQ.
A good solution would be an icon of the generals, in the infantry style of the PZC, but it is very difficult to make.

It is simply a building, not necessarily a bunker.
Well, the movement of the bunker can be explained by the fact that people leave the bunker/building, get on the train with everything necessary, go to another point and find another bunker/building there
The bunker is not a straightforward, but a figurative image.

I think the main problem with HQ units in PzC is that they can add very little bonus to the surrounding units. Really, 'radar' is the only trait that can have some meaningful effect, but it is very insignificant. Some other bonus effects can be added by scripts, of course, but it is limited to certain AI zones which does not really help the mobile HQ unit concept as AI zones are fixed throughout the scenario.

Yes I agree.
Therefore only the radar trait is used.
In the beginning I wanted to make a unit of searchlights with a radar trait, but for now I decided to combine with HQ.
We need the trait that would be attached to the units, and had an effect on the nearest units.
I hope in PZC2 it will appear.

Yes, I also found these very interesting. Especially the fact that even though the USSR almost always suffered heavier losses, it still managed to gradually increase the number of its tanks, guns, aircraft, etc. compared to the Germans, who only struggled to maintain their original strength. Which made me think that the outcome of the war was decided in the factories and not on the battlefields.

Yes.
And i have a difficult task.
I have feedback that the Germans are too strong in RAW mod.
But if I weaken them, we'll have to make hordes of reinforcements for the Germans.
And if I strengthen the units of the Soviet side, we will get a huge strong army at the very beginning of the war.
I hope I can get a balance and solve this problem

It's interesting that the Soviets also wanted "to retain" their original strength in 20,000 tanks no more

[McGuba]

Yes.
And i have a difficult task.
I have feedback that the Germans are too strong in RAW mod.

Personally, I did not really feel the German units too strong when I test played 1941. As you wrote, if they are weaker, they cannot reach Moscow by December. My only concern was the relative weakness of the T-34, I think it should have a bit stronger GD (like 13-15) - but we have already discussed it in detail. I think the infantry and other units are well balanced for 1941. In later war years the Soviets can get some improved units for better balance. But in 1941 the Axis side has to be significantly stronger as they captured more territory than in any other year of the war.

I think the real challange with a Soviet campaign is how to make your players to keep playing even after suffering huge losses and lands in the first months. It is easy to understand that most people would lose enthusiasm after suffering the historical losses. The player has to be a little Stalin in order to keep the faith after all the setbacks, but for most people Stalin is not a good idol to follow.

[Intenso82]

Personally, I did not really feel the German units too strong when I test played 1941. As you wrote, if they are weaker, they cannot reach Moscow by December. My only concern was the relative weakness of the T-34, I think it should have a bit stronger GD (like 13-15) - but we have already discussed it in detail. I think the infantry and other units are well balanced for 1941. In later war years the Soviets can get some improved units for better balance. But in 1941 the Axis side has to be significantly stronger as they captured more territory than in any other year of the war.

Now I put GD 13 for T34/41 (although I still think that this is a lot, but not on the technical characteristics of the tank, but on the training of crews and the tactical capabilities of the command in 41year).
But we will test it

Also, in order to preserve the historical correspondence of the number of T34 tanks, I decided to use special zones for upgrading BT tanks in T34.
Like this, but this one will be used to upgrade to the Guards.


The player will be given a certain number of slots, to upgrade a certain number of units.
To upgrade, you will need to put the unit in this marked zone.
This will be a script update.

I'm working on the fact that this update will be used for some subclasses of units, with Noupgrade trait,
To preserve their historical proportions. These are heavy tanks, combat engineers and some others.
But all this needs to be tested

I think the real challange with a Soviet campaign is how to make your players to keep playing even after suffering huge losses and lands in the first months. It is easy to understand that most people would lose enthusiasm after suffering the historical losses. The player has to be a little Stalin in order to keep the faith after all the setbacks, but for most people Stalin is not a good idol to follow.

It was planned that the player would play for every single general.
Game is more about people, than about Stalin.
As a whole, as the general character of all Generals the player is responsible for all sectors of the front.
But above him there is a higher command.
And the higher command can give him orders or not give at his discretion. But always observes.
Moreover, how to execute the order all this remains at the discretion of the player.
And if a player often violates the orders of the high command, it can end badly for him.
What Stalin wants to do with such a shrewd general ...)
But I am limited by the number of AI zones for this.
I would like it to be not a black and white, but a more diverse story.
And not just a game based on the PZC engine.
But also a story about making decisions in the conditions of that time.

[McGuba]

Now I put GD 13 for T34/41 (although I still think that this is a lot, but not on the technical characteristics of the tank, but on the training of crews and the tactical capabilities of the command in 41year).
But we will test it

Sure, I think it will be good, especially if you add some German reinforcements as well, like Pz.IIIJ units for 1941.

By the way, I found this site really useful to re-calculate GD for some tanks and other armoured units in the game:
http://tanks.gg/tank/t-34/model?l=101113&vm=visual

Some guy here drew my attention to this site and it is really useful to get an average GD for a tank based on average armour thickness at horizontal angles. This can be useful for PzC as well as most tanks had different armour thicknesses sloped at different angles at different parts, but with this site it is possible to come up with an average armour thickness at normal firing angles which might help to calculate the GD.

Also, in order to preserve the historical correspondence of the number of T34 tanks, I decided to use special zones for upgrading BT tanks in T34.
Like this, but this one will be used to upgrade to the Guards.

I think this upgrade system is a good idea and will work nicely in RAW. I will do something similar with the Pz.II/Pz.38 to Marder cross class upgrades in my mod. I would only suggest you to make the upgrade area a bit less off - I do not really like the idea to have hexes in the tactical map which look way too different from the normal terrain. I think these orange and dark shaded stripes are not necessary to mark this upgrade area. It would be enough to have only the tent and maybe some sign post with cyrillic letters or a guard tower or something like that. I think there was the same problem with the original yellow square border markers and that's why I suggested to use the border poles instead. The best practise should be to have something which fits in well with the terrain but also easy to spot.