Order of Battle: Blitzkrieg waffen ss

[Von Birnstock]

Ive been a huge fan of this series from the beginning. When I saw that they had added actual waffen SS units I was SUPER excited! finnaly a WW2 game was going to have waffen ss units! Then I played it. Then I waited for several months and played again hoping the dev's would have fixed the absolutely terrible implementation of the Waffen SS. Here's the issues

1. You get the Wiking Division, awesome right? WRONG. They just used a Finnish ski unit. They could have used a heavy weapons unit with a little camo scheme and maybe a little assault bonus and it would have been completely fine but no they went complete BS lazy and just threw a finnish ski unit in. Shameful

2. You want to get your Wiking unit a transport? NOPE, cant get them a transport. Apparently they just ski everywhere, because we all know the 5th SS Wiking division was a ski troop, right? again Shameful!

3. Ok screw it, You'll just recruit new Waffen SS units with their little skull symbol, fine, right?. NOPE! They are exactly like regular army units in look and stats. The only difference is they DON'T getting any of the specialization tree bonuses that you have unlocked making it completely useless to buy 0 star waffen ss units when you can get 1 star regular army units.

I'm sorry if I'm seeming like a prick. I really do love this series but I just cant see how any Dev of a WW2 game could look at this and think "Ya thats how we should do it, our fans are really going to love this" I even gave them several months to maybe do a little clean up and fix this, I understand deadlines but this is just terrible.

Also some notes on the new import feature in the Japanese Campaigns:

-Lose all your commanders completely destroying any special uniqueness of that unit
-Lose the units transport
-Lose most of your xp
-lose all specialization tree progress
-and last but not least you have to spend RP to reform the units, which you dont have because that also doesnt carry over.

I really hope everyone who plays has fun but for me I'm tired of great games that, as they get more popular, seem to pump out lower quality expansions

[terminator]

Hi,
Good idea, you could do some scenario ( or a mini-campaign) in 1941 :

1941.jpg (252.21 KiB) Viewed 7630 times

[Horst]

I'm no fan of the import feature either. You basically have to earn 4-stars and more that your revived units are better than those which are purchased with experience booster specs.
And to add something miserably to the list: importing Waffen-SS core units doesn't work either so far.

I still like to have an extra Waffen-SS tank in my core. The great thing about this spec is that you have an extra income which can be usually spend on only elite replacements if you don't play that shabby.

[Andy2012]

Yes, there are problems with OoB. It is more like that fidgety, fickle sports car that looks awesome and drives fast, but is way too often in the shop, leaks oil and wont start. But it is still awesome.
Lets be fair - its a small team and they need to make hay while the sun is shining. Especially with the Blitzkrieg DLC, OoB is coming into its own. Quality and mission design has improved markedly. But lets see how Panzercorps 2 does.

[bebro]

I'm sorry if I'm seeming like a prick. I really do love this series but I just cant see how any Dev of a WW2 game could look at this and think "Ya thats how we should do it, our fans are really going to love this" I even gave them several months to maybe do a little clean up and fix this, I understand deadlines but this is just terrible.

Just to be clear I don't have a problem with players making constructive criticism. That being said I'm not in the position to make promises on these specific issues, but you can be sure we're not ignoring them.

[Andy2012]

Just to be clear I don't have a problem with players making constructive criticism. That being said I'm not in the position to make promises on these specific issues, but you can be sure we're not ignoring them.

That's good to know. I guess most people around here have no idea how Slitherine or coding in general works (not me) or that this is a business fighting for sales in crammed market. adherbals post about that long queue at Slitherine for updates was quite revealing. Complex stuff. Hang in there, dudes; you are doing a great job.

[GiveWarAchance]

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[kondi754]

Yes, there are problems with OoB. It is more like that fidgety, fickle sports car that looks awesome and drives fast, but is way too often in the shop, leaks oil and wont start. But it is still awesome.
Lets be fair - its a small team and they need to make hay while the sun is shining. Especially with the Blitzkrieg DLC, OoB is coming into its own. Quality and mission design has improved markedly. But lets see how Panzercorps 2 does.

Like the new Panthers at Kursk all shiny & new and Hitler's delight but had some faults that needed to be fixed up before going to battle.
But I think OOB is in better condition now than the Panthers at Kursk.
And I hope they fix the beloved Waffen SS so they become real. There should be heavy infantry renamed as Grenadiers and tanks & stugs for the Waffen SS with a little better stats than the regular Wehrmacht ones with a bit higher price cause of more training required to make. The Scandinavian Waffen SS like Danmark and Nordland (best friends of Wiking) used Stugs a lot.

I can't agree, it looks like you think that the Waffen SS was elite of an army and it is a big abuse.
Waffen SS learned only how to fight in the years 1939 to 1942, so I don't think so this formation should have better statistics. You must also remember that until 1942 there were hardly any tanks or propelled guns. Everything got Wehrmacht.
I agree that in the years 43-45 the burden of defense battles based on the Waffen SS in a large extent, and also W-SS began to get the best equipment.
Despite this, I do not think Leibstandarte or Das Reich were better than Grossdeutschland, Panzer Lehr or 4th Panzer Divison, which was called "fire brigade of the Eastern Front."

[Andy2012]

@kondi: Agree. Historically, you are right. Waffen SS was an overzealous, inexperienced rabble frowned upon by the Wehrmacht officers. (Also had high loss rates.) But gameplay-wise, elite units as a special treat would be rewarding. (Or at least make them look cool or distinctive.) Right now, it is either an extra tank or two lightinf without transport. This is still useful, but not very exciting. Special skins, different stats and maybe unique tactics (cant think of anything right now) would make this interesting. (But difficult to balance and implement. Lets face it, the devs are short on time and staff already.)
And there is also the point that if you make these supergreat, you are definitely putting a bunch of war-criminals and murderers on a pedestal. This is already a difficult legal subject, thats why the original SS skull is not in the game.

[Horst]

The camo section of the game definitely needs an update, so people can create own skins at least.

The 6 command points for WSS until end of 41 are indeed quite pitiful at beginning. Tiger tanks already require 7 points, so there won't be much clawing later if the Waffen_SS_II and later _III specialization only gives further 6 points or even less.
To compare the spec with the PC SE-slots: 2 from Poland to Norway, 3 Eben to Maginot, 4 from Belgrade to Demyansk Pocket, 5 from Vitebsk to Tatsinskaya. That offered a lot more punch in PC unlike in OOB, that's for sure.

[Erik2]

The Waffen SS infantry units could use a darker (black?) uniform to make them stand out a bit from the Wehrmacht units.

Often the Corps d'Esprit made a difference between formations. For instance, the Fallschirmjägers at Crete was mostly not elite units, many jumped into their first battle. But they were fanatical with a high spirits.

[Andy2012]

The Waffen SS infantry units could use a darker (black?) uniform to make them stand out a bit from the Wehrmacht units.

Often the Corps d'Esprit made a difference between formations. For instance, the Fallschirmjägers at Crete was mostly not elite units, many jumped into their first battle. But they were fanatical with a high spirits.

Cant really see a darker uniform. I mean, black is black, grey is grey. Could use the same models, but a camo shirt overthrow.

"fanatical with high spirits" - probably drunk as sh*t. I know I would be. I think there is even a book about heavy drinking on the front in the Wehrmacht.
You could probably make them play a bit more "elite" by letting them start with two exp stars and let them gain experience faster than the Wehrmacht. Later on (in future DLCs), they would get advanced equipment (Tiger, Tiger II, Jagdpanther and so on) a mission earlier.

[kondi754]

The Waffen SS infantry units could use a darker (black?) uniform to make them stand out a bit from the Wehrmacht units.

Often the Corps d'Esprit made a difference between formations. For instance, the Fallschirmjägers at Crete was mostly not elite units, many jumped into their first battle. But they were fanatical with a high spirits.

Gestapo wore black uniforms, the Waffen SS wore camouflage jackets in the brown-green color. The uniforms had the same color as the Wehrmacht.
Ok, you can make the Waffen SS elite, if it's to improve the game but don't invent them new uniforms.

[Erik2]

What, no fashion show with Panthers on the cat-walk?

[kondi754]

What, no fashion show with Panthers on the cat-walk?

Gestapo and SS uniforms designed by Hugo Boss

[bru888]

Also some notes on the new import feature in the Japanese Campaigns:

-Lose all your commanders completely destroying any special uniqueness of that unit
-Lose the units transport
-Lose most of your xp
-lose all specialization tree progress
-and last but not least you have to spend RP to reform the units, which you dont have because that also doesnt carry over.

I really hope everyone who plays has fun but for me I'm tired of great games that, as they get more popular, seem to pump out lower quality expansions

I just wanted to comment on this. The bolded items are, in my opinion, something that should be worked on if possible, for immersion and continuity. I would have liked my favorite commanders to move from Morning Sun to Rising Sun. Also, I cannot remember if this was true, but if you have to acquire the same specialisations again in the second campaign, that is a bit unrealistic.

However, the other items are in place (or not changed) due to gameplay balance. The devs designed Rising Sun as a standalone campaign. This means Rising Sun must be playable whether you are playing it by itself or as the linked second campaign. If you were to start Rising Sun with all of the XP from Morning Sun, or did not have to spend any RP to reform the units, then you would dominate Rising Sun, be bored, and be posting here about how boring it was.

Lastly, I don't agree with that last sentence of yours as applied to OOB.

[prattaa]

Re: losing most of the experience.

Where do you think the endless supply of elite replacements comes from?

[Andy2012]

What, no fashion show with Panthers on the cat-walk?

Gestapo and SS uniforms designed by Hugo Boss

Well, it is always important to be dressed in the Reich way, putting the fashion in fascism. "Lovely swASStika you have there, young frauelein"

(I'll better stop now. This is not Reddit.)

[Horst]

I just wanted to comment on this. The bolded items are, in my opinion, something that should be worked on if possible, for immersion and continuity. I would have liked my favorite commanders to move from Morning Sun to Rising Sun. Also, I cannot remember if this was true, but if you have to acquire the same specialisations again in the second campaign, that is a bit unrealistic.

However, the other items are in place (or not changed) due to gameplay balance. The devs designed Rising Sun as a standalone campaign. This means Rising Sun must be playable whether you are playing it by itself or as the linked second campaign. If you were to start Rising Sun with all of the XP from Morning Sun, or did not have to spend any RP to reform the units, then you would dominate Rising Sun, be bored, and be posting here about how boring it was.

It's not implausible that commanders get transfered to different units and war theaters once in a while. The player is not High Command after all and has to follow orders.
As long as the next chapter of a campaign has enough of its own commanders, then I think it's fine enough that way. In particular the Generals with radius bonuses are very powerful, so these should be rare due balance reasons.
I understand people that just miss the many heroes and their often random bonuses from PC. Working on the units' kill statistic to gain medals and heroes is much more motivating in PC than in OOB. That is definintely a reason to bring units over to other campaigns. The PC campaigns always have their prestige caps, so it is never really that unbalancing although tough luck loosing some in late-war campaigns against 3-star default AI units.

I've created a Morning+Rising campaign mix. It is indeed much easier to play if you bring thousands of RPs and the commanders from one campaign to the next one. I wouldn't say it's boring but I guess I'm just not fond of Japanese units in general. They got too crappy tanks without many variants to upgrade to. They are only fun to play in the last scenario with Tiger tanks.

[kondi754]

What, no fashion show with Panthers on the cat-walk?

Gestapo and SS uniforms designed by Hugo Boss

Well, it is always important to be dressed in the Reich way, putting the fashion in fascism. "Lovely swASStika you have there, young frauelein"

(I'll better stop now. This is not Reddit.)

Read yourself. The reality ahead of the imagination.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss ... _designer)