Threatened Flank

[Raygwgc]

In a game at the excellent Oxford Doubles this weekend we had a situation where a unit taking a CT test had a threatened flank. What exasperated us was that the flank in question was about 5mm from a wood and that woood was between us and the Horse threatening said flank. The horse would have had to take a 40 minute tram ride around us and the unit we were fighting, past our other flank before hitting the flank under apparent threat, or cut though said wood with machetes, as the unit we had hit in impact had its flank touching the wood. I appreciate that rules are difficult to formulate and anomalies arise, but in this instance it seems there is a case for treatment.
Forgive the moan. Still a great set of rules.
Ray

[ravenflight]

I see your complaint. I had a similar complaint with regard to a coast. You have a coast 6" in from the side edge.

1 - your infantry can't start deployed against the coast; and,
2 - you count as a threatened flank if you have your troops in between the 6" and 12" range.

It definitely doesn't make sense and any attempt to justify it is (IMHO) lame, but it IS a set of rules and you can always modify them for house rules if you have situations that don't make sense.

In a competition you have to draw the line (pardon the pun) somewhere and RAW is where the line is drawn.

[madaxeman]

In a game at the excellent Oxford Doubles this weekend we had a situation where a unit taking a CT test had a threatened flank. What exasperated us was that the flank in question was about 5mm from a wood and that woood was between us and the Horse threatening said flank. The horse would have had to take a 40 minute tram ride around us and the unit we were fighting, past our other flank before hitting the flank under apparent threat, or cut though said wood with machetes, as the unit we had hit in impact had its flank touching the wood. I appreciate that rules are difficult to formulate and anomalies arise, but in this instance it seems there is a case for treatment.
Forgive the moan. Still a great set of rules.
Ray

Dealing with what counts as the "edges" of terrain, or having bases "in/out" of terrain is something where any set of rules will inevitably have to draw a purely arbitrary line about. FoGR generally goes with "bases need to be all in terrain to count the benefit of it", which is probably better than the "half a sandal in" from some other sets.

I guess the real solution is to remember how this rule is written, and make sure you put your infantry 5mm closer to the wood next time around...

[alasdair2204]

To be fair Tim

in our game you had your whole army in the wood apart from the unit I routed go 4 or 5, which you then rallied on your baseline for it to then return, rout the unit that routed it and then cause mayhem in my army

Alasdair

[quackstheking]

Remember, you can have a free shift of up to half a base width to put your flank edge on difficult terrain to stop the threatened flank p.61 4th bullet

Don

[donm2]

Have woods in Oxford now become very important

Don

[Raygwgc]

Woods in Oxford are absolutely vital, as everywhere else.
Thanks to all for comments. To be fair to our opponents they did prompt us to hug the wood (very sporting), but the position looked secure so we perhaps did not pay sufficient attention.
The rule does have the benefit of being easy to understand, but I must say that it always wrankles when a rule allows a ridiculous situation to apply.
Regards,
Ray

[madaxeman]

To be fair Tim

in our game you had your whole army in the wood apart from the unit I routed go 4 or 5, which you then rallied on your baseline for it to then return, rout the unit that routed it and then cause mayhem in my army

Alasdair

There was no question at all that they were totally 'in' the wood though !

[madaxeman]

I see your complaint. I had a similar complaint with regard to a coast. You have a coast 6" in from the side edge.

1 - your infantry can't start deployed against the coast; and,
2 - you count as a threatened flank if you have your troops in between the 6" and 12" range.

It definitely doesn't make sense and any attempt to justify it is (IMHO) lame, but it IS a set of rules and you can always modify them for house rules if you have situations that don't make sense.

In a competition you have to draw the line (pardon the pun) somewhere and RAW is where the line is drawn.

If you put your infantry within 6" of any coast that my pirates deploy, they will find themselves very threatened very quickly indeed !

[ravenflight]

If you put your infantry within 6" of any coast that my pirates deploy, they will find themselves very threatened very quickly indeed !

I've read your post about their first outing.

How much damage did your naval guns do?

[madaxeman]

erm, this weekend...?

They got on table once, and never actually fired a shot ....

However, if anyone was to go within 12" of that flank... things might be different !

[ravenflight]

erm, this weekend...?

They got on table once, and never actually fired a shot ....

However, if anyone was to go within 12" of that flank... things might be different !

Sounds rather Buccaneer like... do nothing... but look good doing it

[madaxeman]

I have a suspicion that the ship is now up to 14 consecutive games in which it either hasn't appeared at all, or when it has, it hasn't fired a single shot ...

[MatteoPasi]

The Ghost Ship !

[donm2]

The Ghost Ship !

Depending on the dice, there could be an even larger one at Slimbridge this weekend

Will try and remember to take a picture.

Don

[Vespasian28]

I think being able to fire with the ship is the least important part of having it.

It looks terrific and surely enables you to sneak stuff down the flank under the cover of the guns?

I particulalry liked Ray's Buccaneer ship towing a cutter and being followed by sharks waiting for unwary Jacobites going for a swim

[ravenflight]

I think being able to fire with the ship is the least important part of having it.

It looks terrific and surely enables you to sneak stuff down the flank under the cover of the guns

Sure! I agree!! But doesn't it strike you as a bit odd that even buccaneers with a naval option can't start their men (except skirmishers) butted up against the coast? They have to start 6" in... in case... err... in case the rules were written for no coast?

I'm not going to lose any sleep over it, but there are a couple of issues like that which would be nice if tidied up.

[madaxeman]

I think being able to fire with the ship is the least important part of having it.

It looks terrific and surely enables you to sneak stuff down the flank under the cover of the guns?

I particulalry liked Ray's Buccaneer ship towing a cutter and being followed by sharks waiting for unwary Jacobites going for a swim

The "looks terrific" is the best part of it for sure

Even at 900 points most people seem to be able to deploy their army sufficient far away from the coast such that "sneaking under the cover of guns" isn't really necessary, but when it does get on table it does affect enemy deployment so you do know where they will be I guess. I'm not complaining - its a bit of frivolity rather than a game-winner