Battlefield: Europe MOD v2.4

[McGuba]

Here's the current version:



Hmmm... Haven't done an attachment before. Does that look right? Hope I didn't mess it up.

Sure, it workds, thanks. I will add it to v1.1, which is by now "looking at the horizon", lol.

I vote for the searchlight. Best idea yet.

Yeah, I think I will stick to it for now, unless someone comes up with an even better idea...

[Uhu]

I would also suggest that if you are already visiting Moscow take a trip to the Lubyanka. Oh wait...you even don't need to go there - you will be taken there... And if you are lucky you got also really fast a ticket to the famous Gulag Archipegalo.

Anyway, I do not want you to spend the rest of your life making alternative graphics (do not forget that the Kremlin is waiting for you visit, and I heard they have a nice Mausoleum nearby ), so I think the pin with the glowing flag would do for now unless someone comes up with a really really great and original idea.

Very true. I hear the Kremlin tour books up fast, so I don't want to keep Uncle Joe waiting.
I have some good news for you: I have managed to arrange a free V.I.P. ticket for you! All you have to do is to get there by early December as they are closing down early this year. I hear they are packing up in a hurry to move to the Ural Mountains for some reason.
By the way, the ticket includes a private V.I.P. behind-the-scenes guided tour with Natasha (last year's Miss Moscow), and unlimited eating and drinking at the buffet.

[Uhu]

Well, I must say McGuba, this mod, your work is really a masterprice in all manner! It gives almost a new, standalone game to the existing one! And it is as addictive as Civilisation ("one more turn...").
With the many - historical - events and with the many messages it feels really like a living world. True there are some nasty evilness like with the Tiger-transport (will not say more because that would be spoiler), but that moment I was very angry... . I just hope that you were not SO evil that the enemy launches a counter offensive to take back the Middle East oil fields. At least not from the South-East direction. Please whisper this info in my ears because I don't want to loose the game only because of that...

- Winter is always about to survive and wait/pray for better weather...
- You made the map so genial that the player has to take the defense line exactly in that way as in history (maybe that front line changes happened also because of the terrain... )! The evens of the winter of 1942-43 happened as historical: although I couldn't come to Stalingrad only to Rostov and I even prepared some defenses ancitipating the counter attack. But it was so brutal that I fall back sometimes in panic while wealthy panzer units perished and many other infantry units too to buy time for the rest...
But now I started the game again - after 50+ turns. I managed a lot of thins good: I took Cairo and the Oil fields at Baghdad and I was on my way to the Caucasus from South. My Italian navy fleet was strong and experienced (expect the all destroyed destroyers and heavily weakened U-Boats). I started the real fight in Russia from early 1942 when the spring came and everything seamed to be OK. (The units of the Hungarian Mobile Corps also survived so no cause to worry. )

But I made some medium/big errors:
1., I didn't made enough preparations to defend Tunisia. So it was captured (again historical timely - congratulation again for the great design!), than the garrison in Malta wiped out (although the island was not recaptured) and in no time I already encountered Allied units landing in Sicily AND in Italy! I don't know when Italy quits - hopefully the North African captured territory counts in to avoid armistice... - but the Allies were already at the gate of Rome and there were only a few inf defenders...
2., I didn't take enough in account that on Rommel level there is really not much prestige and I behave like the silly customer: when I had 'money' I spent it on many not useful things (strenghten inf units which were no priority, or giving overstrenght) - and when I really needed it I haven't have enough.
3., I paid no attention to my allies and just used them without avoiding heavy losses - and when the winter came, I had not the power or the perishable units to by time, just my worthy units to halt the Soviet offensive.
4., I didn't care to upgrade the Pak 37's which were maybe useful to halt the hordes of Soviet tanks.

So I started the game again with a long list what to do/not to do! If somebody is interested, I can make a strategy guide.

[McGuba]

Uhu wrote:
And if you are lucky you got also really fast a ticket to the famous Gulag Archipegalo.

Hm... It sounds like a very interesting and exotic holiday destination! I will ask my agent about it, maybe he can suggest a cheap last minute trip.

True there are some nasty evilness like with the Tiger-transport (will not say more because that would be spoiler), but that moment I was very angry...

Sorry, but I think a precious cargo deserves a special escort... However, it is not really a pre-set event: I think you were just at the wrong place in the wrong time. Just think it over once more, how should I know where the player wants to take that Tiger on that huge map? And on which route? There are plenty options after all, depending on which theater you want to make a difference with it.

I just hope that you were not SO evil that the enemy launches a counter offensive to take back the Middle East oil fields. At least not from the South-East direction. Please whisper this info in my ears because I don't want to loose the game only because of that...

Well, it was a long time ago when I made that part of the map and I do not remember clearly. Even if I remembered it would be classified for at least 50 years... What, wait a second, Windows shows it is 2014, which means WWII ended like 70 years ago!!! So I think that file is no longer classified! Let me see... ah, yeah... you are lucky... no counter-attack from the South East... the Brits are busy holding the line against the Japanese...

The units of the Hungarian Mobile Corps also survived so no cause to worry.

Oh, well done, that's a great relief! It means grandpa finally made it, so I can live to fight another day and to release v1.1!!!

I didn't made enough preparations to defend Tunisia. So it was captured (again historical timely - congratulation again for the great design!), than the garrison in Malta wiped out (although the island was not recaptured) and in no time I already encountered Allied units landing in Sicily AND in Italy!

Even if you do not prepare the defenses of Tunisia prior to the Allied landing, you should have enough time to take some units there by air and sea (both needs escort, of course) because of their slow advance. However, if the Italian fleet is busy besieging the Middle East at that time, than it is a different story, of course...

I agree, though, that it would be better to separate those two invasions as it happened historically. Problem is that I do not have enough AI zones to make it like that, but I will have another look - I might find one more AI zone that I could use for it, but no promises.

As a side note, one just cannot imagine how hard it is to simulate the whole war by being restricted to use only 32 AI zones...

For the same reason:

I don't know when Italy quits - hopefully the North African captured territory counts in to avoid armistice...

Italy would not quit in this mod - it would be very difficult to make it as historically Italy was torn into two parts: some supported the Allies, while others remained loyal to the Axis. I just do not have enough AI zones to make it right and thus for simplicity Italy remains pro-Axis throughout for the time being.

but the Allies were already at the gate of Rome and there were only a few inf defenders...

Somehow I felt that it might not be good, so I will try to improve it a bit...

I didn't take enough in account that on Rommel level there is really not much prestige and I behave like the silly customer: when I had 'money' I spent it on many not useful things (strenghten inf units which were no priority, or giving overstrenght) - and when I really needed it I haven't have enough.

Basically that's why I advised you early on to play it on General (even though I know that your preferred level is Rommel). I set up the whole thing with General in my mind (for experienced players) and it might well be an impossible mission to win it on any higher.

I paid no attention to my allies and just used them without avoiding heavy losses - and when the winter came, I had not the power or the perishable units to by time, just my worthy units to halt the Soviet offensive.

Sure, this mod might be a good lesson for everyone to learn to value your allies - do not waste them, even if they are inferior!

I didn't care to upgrade the Pak 37's which were maybe useful to halt the hordes of Soviet tanks.

Sure, in the vanilla campaigns towed AT guns are hardly needed at all, but in this mod, just like historically, they can be very useful and cost-effective! By the way, I wonder why most players give so low priority to towed AT guns - they are cheap, good for defense and to hold victory objectives, and later can be upgraded to self propelled AT guns or assault guns when needed. I think AT guns are the real underdogs of PG/PzC.

If somebody is interested, I can make a strategy guide.

Please, do so! I find it very interesting to read what other strategies people come up with. As I wrote in the first post of this topic, there can be many ways to play this mod and I am eager to read more. And I am quite sure that it would help others as well not to fall into the same traps.


Many thanks for your feedback, it really helped a lot to make the next release even better!

[iceFlame]

I would also suggest that if you are already visiting Moscow take a trip to the Lubyanka. Oh wait...you even don't need to go there - you will be taken there... And if you are lucky you got also really fast a ticket to the famous Gulag Archipegalo.

You gotta love the warm(?) Russian hospitality. Although they don't seem to have much of a sense of humor when you invade their country. Touchy, touchy.

*******

Here's another Zerstorer, (hopefully mod-worthy), for version 1.1... Used the same icon and added the distinctive nose art. This time it's the Shark from ZG76. If all goes well, it should look something like this:





And here's the PzC version in-game:

ZG_76-Shark.png (35.42 KiB) Viewed 4965 times

[iceFlame]

Oops, I forgot to post these earlier...

Here are the 'proofs' for the Wasp from ZG1:





And once again, in-game:



Last but not least, you can find the attachment here:

viewtopic.php?f=147&t=47985&start=240#p460366

Okay then, onward and upward.

[LandMarine47]

McGuba, if I can make a request, are there any AI zones, I HIGHLY suggest a Market Garden approach. Here is what I though up.

1. Can ONLY happen about a month after Paris is liberated.
2. Allies instantly spawn a large group of paras over key bridges on the Rhine.
3. After Paris is liberated, a pro British and and some American force, should move through Belguim towards Holland. (If possible, Germans should receive a strong of forts around the Franco-German Border (Siegfried Line), especially around Metz. A pro American force should arrive there)
4. Should the Allies succeed in this operation (said bridges should be represented on the map as high priority and the Player is urged to stop the Allied attack) the Invasion of Germany begins around November-Decemberish.
5. Should the Allies fail, the Invasion is delayed until Spring of 1945, and American Forces build up on the German border in the Belgian Border (Battle of the Bulge).

For Battle of the Bulge, the Player is told to capture the Key port of Antwerp. Taking it should instantly cause the Allies to lose lots of prestige and gain the German Player some more as a fact. Maybe if you can, you can make the Allies sign a Peace Treaty (which they never would even if German ever took Antwerp, they wouldn't never hold on too it for more than a Month) OR perhaps the Allies stop all preparations to cross the Rhine an direct their forces towards Antwerp.

Either way, there really need to be a crucial moment after the Fall of Paris. Market Garden or a Battle of the Bulge scenario needs to be present!

And MAYBE you can even make a Battle for Metz, while not as important, it certainly helped the Allies when the assaulted the Siegefired line, and it was a major victory for the French people, taking back former forts and all

[Uhu]

You gotta love the warm(?) Russian hospitality. Although they don't seem to have much of a sense of humor when you invade their country. Touchy, touchy.

If you will not handle them as Untermensch (slaves) they could be your ally. After freeing from the terror of Stalin they could (anyway, more then 10% of the Wehrmacht was from Ukrainian and Russian people not to speaking about the many other military and militia formations).
And this made me a total new idea: that the better handling of the ex-Soviet population can be implemented in this mod too!! (Hitler was anyway rejected from 1941 as stated in the beginning messages of the mod so we are not bound to "East policies"...
Details later...

Here's another Zerstorer, (hopefully mod-worthy), for version 1.1... Used the same icon and added the distinctive nose art. This time it's the Shark from ZG76. If all goes well, it should look something like this:

It looks nice, but I would make the shark insignia a little smaller and more darker, with some shadow.

[Uhu]

Nice idea - but as McGuba already mentioned, there is no more available AI zones in the game editor.
I think we should turn to the developers and ask them if it is possible to make the number of the AI zones higher. Or it has a technical limitation?

McGuba, if I can make a request, are there any AI zones, I HIGHLY suggest a Market Garden approach. Here is what I though up.

1. Can ONLY happen about a month after Paris is liberated.
2. Allies instantly spawn a large group of paras over key bridges on the Rhine.
3. After Paris is liberated, a pro British and and some American force, should move through Belguim towards Holland. (If possible, Germans should receive a strong of forts around the Franco-German Border (Siegfried Line), especially around Metz. A pro American force should arrive there)
4. Should the Allies succeed in this operation (said bridges should be represented on the map as high priority and the Player is urged to stop the Allied attack) the Invasion of Germany begins around November-Decemberish.
5. Should the Allies fail, the Invasion is delayed until Spring of 1945, and American Forces build up on the German border in the Belgian Border (Battle of the Bulge).

For Battle of the Bulge, the Player is told to capture the Key port of Antwerp. Taking it should instantly cause the Allies to lose lots of prestige and gain the German Player some more as a fact. Maybe if you can, you can make the Allies sign a Peace Treaty (which they never would even if German ever took Antwerp, they wouldn't never hold on too it for more than a Month) OR perhaps the Allies stop all preparations to cross the Rhine an direct their forces towards Antwerp.

Either way, there really need to be a crucial moment after the Fall of Paris. Market Garden or a Battle of the Bulge scenario needs to be present!

And MAYBE you can even make a Battle for Metz, while not as important, it certainly helped the Allies when the assaulted the Siegefired line, and it was a major victory for the French people, taking back former forts and all

[McGuba]

iceFlame wrote:
Here's another Zerstorer, (hopefully mod-worthy), for version 1.1... Used the same icon and added the distinctive nose art. This time it's the Shark from ZG76. If all goes well, it should look something like this:

Uhu wrote:
It looks nice, but I would make the shark insignia a little smaller and more darker, with some shadow.

I must say that Uhu is right, but no problem I will try to improve it. What I really need is suggestions which nose art to add to differentiate those units. So far we have 2 different icons for the Bf-110C and D, which leaves only the F. (The G is already different as it has another colour scheme.)
And maybe something for the Bf-109G2, G-6, and G-14.

LandMarine47 wrote:
McGuba, if I can make a request, are there any AI zones, I HIGHLY suggest a Market Garden approach. Here is what I though up.

Uhu wrote:
Nice idea - but as McGuba already mentioned, there is no more available AI zones in the game editor.
I think we should turn to the developers and ask them if it is possible to make the number of the AI zones higher. Or it has a technical limitation?

Same as before: Uhu could be my spokesperson . While I would like to add more historical battles, it is not possible due to the lack of free AI zones. Let me explain:

1. Can ONLY happen about a month after Paris is liberated. - That's one AI zone (Paris)
2. Allies instantly spawn a large group of paras over key bridges on the Rhine.
3. After Paris is liberated, a pro British and and some American force, should move through Belguim towards Holland. (If possible, Germans should receive a strong of forts around the Franco-German Border (Siegfried Line), especially around Metz. A pro American force should arrive there) - That's another, to make it right (target area in Holland)
4. Should the Allies succeed in this operation (said bridges should be represented on the map as high priority and the Player is urged to stop the Allied attack) the Invasion of Germany begins around November-Decemberish.
5. Should the Allies fail, the Invasion is delayed until Spring of 1945, and American Forces build up on the German border in the Belgian Border (Battle of the Bulge). - Here is a third one - allied build up zone

For Battle of the Bulge, the Player is told to capture the Key port of Antwerp. Taking it should instantly cause the Allies to lose lots of prestige and gain the German Player some more as a fact. Maybe if you can, you can make the Allies sign a Peace Treaty (which they never would even if German ever took Antwerp, they wouldn't never hold on too it for more than a Month) OR perhaps the Allies stop all preparations to cross the Rhine an direct their forces towards Antwerp. - The fourth - Antwerp


And MAYBE you can even make a Battle for Metz, while not as important, it certainly helped the Allies when the assaulted the Siegefired line, and it was a major victory for the French people, taking back former forts and all - To be honest, I do not know much about this battle, but I suspect it would need at least one more AI zone, the fifth one, if I am right

Now, I have none really. I have managed to duplicate the task of an existing AI zone used by the Allied naval units patroling the Mediterranean Sea to be used to trigger the invasion of Italy and thus to separate this operation from the invasion of Sicily, but even this can cause some problems. I just feel it impossible to find 4 or 5 AI zones to depict those events. It is typically something that can be depicted in a "conventional" scenario, but not in such a complex one like this mod. Maybe if there were more AI zones. Other than that I like your thinking - this is how a good scenario scripting plan looks like.

[Uhu]

I don't know when Italy quits - hopefully the North African captured territory counts in to avoid armistice...

Italy would not quit in this mod - it would be very difficult to make it as historically Italy was torn into two parts: some supported the Allies, while others remained loyal to the Axis. I just do not have enough AI zones to make it right and thus for simplicity Italy remains pro-Axis throughout for the time being.

That's sad. But if would be really need many AI zones to calculate a balance, when Italy quits (for example if Sicily is captured and soma Italian mainland too but the whole or at least most of the North African territories - including Alexandria and Cairo - stays in Axis hands than only quits when Rome is captured. It is complex but it presents really the fantastic possibilities of this mod! I hope the developers can and will be make the AI zones higher if we ask them.

but the Allies were already at the gate of Rome and there were only a few inf defenders...

Somehow I felt that it might not be good, so I will try to improve it a bit...

No need for that. I think so much flexibility can you let in the game. Anyway historically the Allies tried to make landings on northern part of Italy too so that could be represented also with this. And as I didn't take care to bolster the Axis defenses in Italy it was right to punish me for that. The question is just why didn't they capture all of Sicily. They left one town and an airfields south of the Etna (at least for some turns - I don't know what would have been happened later because that was the time, when I restarted the mod - but there were Allied units on the Island and they could already taken that towns, airfield)

[LandMarine47]

Well Metz was a rather Bloody affair. Pattons 3rd Army (and elements of a recover French Army) had strict orders to liberate the captured French forts (Germans had upgaded them prior to the battle) and more importantly, secure the fortress city of Metz. It was a real thron in the Americans side, as the Forts had some very powerful guns, extremely long range state of the art, and they were pounding important US positions. Not to mention the strategic value (and political value with the French). The Allies could in turn use the Guns to pound the formidable Siegefried line. Not to mention Metz would operate as an HQ when the line was broken. But in the end, The Metz Campagin was a bloody affair, as the Americans could have really just pushed for Metz, taken the important forts, maybe even bieseiged the damn place! The Germans would have to conserve their ammo for attacks and stop pounding allied positions. In the end, what really lead the the bloodshed, was the Allied releationship with the French army. The French insisted on retaking Metz, and troops that could have been used else where (the fighting around the Belgian-German border perhaps?) where wasted here. In particular, a fort the Germans should have is Fort Driant, the most feared of all forts. When the Us infantry attacked (a green unit as well) the US forces took around 120 casualties alone for no real gains.

A very intesting battle, you should read upon if my babbling intrests you one of the many blunders the Allies made during this cricial period. They Allowed the Germans to Garrison those defenses, and paid a hefty price for it. Sun Tzu always said NEVER attack an entrenched enemy blindly. Metz represents this rule.

[LandMarine47]

It's a real shame about these limits. The autumn period of 1944 was a very crucial period, and the mod has lots of potential with it. These alternate histories with a German victory in Belgium during December of 1944, or the Paras securing those Rhine River bridges in September could cause lots of mayhem, (and fun) for anyone playing it! Alas, the Red Bear needs its fair share of attention as well

[McGuba]

McGuba wrote: (hate to quote myself, though...)
I must say that Uhu is right, but no problem I will try to improve it.

Something like this:

Bf_110D.png (45.28 KiB) Viewed 4940 times

The thing is that, no matter how much you like a nose art, it should not be overrepresented and it should not suppress the main features of the unit, at least in my opinion. And sorry, but I cannot accept screenshots from Il-2 Sturmovik, I want contemporary b&w photos as a proof, which can also be used as the bigunit picture in the unit information table.

Stuff like these :
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waf ... e110-R.htm

Uhu wrote:
The question is just why didn't they capture all of Sicily. They left one town and an airfields south of the Etna (at least for some turns - I don't know what would have been happened later because that was the time, when I restarted the mod - but there were Allied units on the Island and they could already taken that towns, airfield)

The AI has the bad habit of going only for the nearest victory objectives. It does not really care about "simple" towns and airfields. Once it takes an enemy victory objective it normally heads to the next nearest one, which in your game was Malta. Sometimes it is good, sometimes not. But, I already tried to improve this part of the scenario a bit. I did not like the fact that the allies landed so close to Rome as it is quite unhistorical. I think it is better and more interesting if they have to fight their way to it. It also gives some time to the player to prepare its defenses.

LandMarine:
Thanks for the info on the Metz battle. I will look into it if I can possibly implement some part of it, no promises, though.

[LandMarine47]

Well if you do decide on it, after the fall of Paris (or Metz) the Allies should receive some French infantry to represent the Free French that joined the War effort after wards

[McGuba]

There are already some Free French inf in the scenario, I might add some more. But, there is currently there is no AI zone for Paris or Metz

I think this Bf-110 mania is contagious, as just cannot stop improving them. So I just added those distinctive radar antennae to bebro's original Bf-110G. Now it really looks like a mosquito (I mean the insect, lol):

Bf_110G.png (42.4 KiB) Viewed 4930 times

[BiteNibbleChomp]

My stormtroopers would be going insane with all those different Bf-110s if I hadn't just given them some F-15s armed with modern missiles and told them "shoot anything that isn't an F-15"!

In short, we don't need so many! - you have probably made more Bf-110 icons than real ones were built (well, not really!)

- BNC

[McGuba]

Haha, sure, you are right...

So I must stop this madness for now

But, before doing so I post the last in the line, bebro's (slightly) modified Bf-110F:

http://www.clubhyper.com/reference/bf11 ... upab_1.htm

Bf_110F.png (39.34 KiB) Viewed 4924 times

Too bad that this nose art is just too small to be visible. Anyway, with this one, our collection is complete, so there will be no more, I promise.

[LandMarine47]

Perhaps remove an AI zone from another area? While I under stand no Metz or Holland zones, Paris needs to have one. As for the Free French, after Paris fell, former French Partisans joined the Newley formed French Army, but had no real artillery. They did have tanks however!

[lsnoop]

Here's the current version:



Hmmm... Haven't done an attachment before. Does that look right? Hope I didn't mess it up.

Sure, it workds, thanks. I will add it to v1.1, which is by now "looking at the horizon", lol.

I vote for the searchlight. Best idea yet.

Yeah, I think I will stick to it for now, unless someone comes up with an even better idea...

Well, I would suggest "desaturating" the victory hexes to black and white (as well as the adjacent German territory) - like in Saboteur but vice versa . But it's not possible, is it?