Kickstarter... Thoughts

[finnian3@yahoo.com]

All,
I wanted to get some feedback from anyone familiar with kickstarter. I want to start a campaign to fund my painting services. Sounds selfish but I like to sell minis for cheap, the downside is that I am not currently funding myself. I have sold armies for less than the cost of materials and so I thought if I could get others to fund what I do, I could still sell miniatures well below market value.
I can't see the hobby surviving if someone doesn't take a hit?

[madaxeman]

I really cant see why anyone would run or fund a Kickstarter for any sort of service business, as you don't have many/any up-front capital costs that need paying before you can start work. Generally those asking for funding do so to cover those big chunky setup costs (ie commissioning sculpts, buying a casting machine etc) that need to be paid out before you can start getting money back in (ie selling the figures at an individual price which is the cost of the lead plus a tiny proportion of the cost of the stuff you bought to design and make them) .. and those paying into it do so because they want to advance purchase the stuff thats going to be designed, and to get stuff at a discount (but with a risk of not getting it at all).

As a painter, you'd effectively be asking people to "lend" you money to you can go out and buy, erm," a load of paints and some brushes" and then you'd in return end up agreeing to paint minis for them at a discount to your normal rates. I'm not sure that going to be a good deal for either party..

[finnian3@yahoo.com]

You are close to the mark. I need to purchase supplies so I can continue to sell minis for no profit. If I can get people to help fund my supplies in return for my services that would be the intent. I would still sell minis but the cost would be nominal. I guess you gotta know what people are selling painted figures for. My 15mm are $1.00 a fig and 25mm are $5.00 a fig. Maybe this is too much but on my end it helps buy brushes, paints, bases, flock, sealers and more minins. The intent is to keep the hobby alive until fully painted armies are affordable. The last time I played FOG I was the youngest player there (I'm 42), which does not bode well for longevity. I play all kinds of wargames and try to get young adults and teens to get into the hobby, but most can't afford the upfront costs. Games like Warhammer, although visually cool, are insanely priced; so many kids can only afford a piece here and there. I come along and sell whole armies, fully painted armies for the cost of some starter kits. I will always take a hit when I sell stuff, but if more people can afford the hobby, then I have done my part to keep it alive.

[zoltan]

Why would you sell minis for 'no profit'? If people are prepared to buy your minis it must mean you have a talent. Surely you should reward your talent with a reasonsble profit? That profit is how you should fund your brushes and paints, not via kickstarter where you are then faced with paying interest or a dividend on the capital kickstarter has loaned you.

[madaxeman]

I'm also not sure how listing minis in auctions on eBay means you can be sure of selling them at "no profit" anyway, as that will surely mean you get the price the market thinks your painting is worth? It's also probably not the best place to make sure your stuff is going to new young players - surely a flgs would be better for that?

A "no profit" painting service is a difficult concept too, as the price can only really be based on "lead"+"paint"+"time". If you are painting the figures yourself to sell, there is no "profit"in this equation, just the cost to yourself of your own time...?

[finnian3@yahoo.com]

The point about ebay is well taken. Essentially, what something sells for on ebay can be seen as a reflection of its market value. I only sell my own stock on ebay which sometimes turns a profit but usually it isn't a good trade off. As far as painting for no profit, that is done in two venues. Ebay is my current venue but I have been extending my network of contacts to the point where I can meet with people and paint their stuff at a price they can afford. Example, I work with a few students with autism, they give me their minis and I paint them for no charge. I am currently painting stuff (historical and fantasy) for my friend's kids. Now they could afford a more expensive painter but I charge them my standard fee which is well below anyone I am aware of. End result of my work, isolated kids gain a fun venue for socializing and other young kids get into gaming while they are still interested. If Kickstarter works well enough, I can buy stuff at my local gaming store or the like and then donate said works to those in need. I can become The Gamers Goodwill store. Again, it ain't perfect but I think I can get more kids and adults fired up about gaming then any organization or company currently in existence.

[madaxeman]

If thats the plan, I'm not sure Kickstarter is what you are looking for. Folks who buy into Kickstarter projects do so because they expect to get something back that's worth more than what they put in - there is IMO very little altrusim or charity involved (if any).

It sounds like you are looking for charity donations, not investors...

[finnian3@yahoo.com]

My idea is not corporate but those who donate deserve something in return. Donate $5.00 get something painted; donate more, get more. All funds donated can be used to aquire minis to be painted and donated to gamers in need. The folks at kickstarter said it fits their model. I just think this is a great way to support the growth of our hobby? Does that make sense? I am no organizer but I can paint and cheap, well painted minis or free, well painted minis will attract more gamers then anything else?

[zoltan]

I don't want you to think that my comments are a criticism of what you are doing - all power to you if you are motivated by alrtruism to help disadvantaged youngsters through your painting talent and time.

For me, when I 'donate' $5, I expect nothing in return. My expectation is that my donation will be used by the person to whom I give it, to make life better for someone else.

When someone (like kickstart) requires a return on the money they provide, I call that business.

It seems to me that you are simply asking each person to make whatever contribution they can afford towards the costs of you painting their figures. Sometimes the amount covers the actual costs (ignoring your time); sometimes it doesn't. I guess in a sense you are donating your time to the person.

Maybe you just need a relatively small amount of money (capital) to buy paints and brushes? So you need a cash donation from someone prepared to finance your altruistic good works? How much would that be $50, $100, $500?

[finnian3@yahoo.com]

Good questions. As I am still at the beginning phase I am unclear of what I will be asking and the full scope of the project. I was going to research a few full line paints and brush sets. I think that would be like phase one of my project. Phase two may include raising funds to buy miniatures to paint and donate. I appreciate critical questioning as it makes me think out the very nature of my project. I am donating my time true enough, but by all means I am not being altruistic. I want FOG and other games of my liking to thrive, so if I donate the vehicle to further said games. More players, more opps for gaming.

[madaxeman]

If you want to do some "free" painting to help kids in your area get into gaming and grow the numbers at your local club/FLGS, it might be a lot easier just to say to some of your gaming club buddies "Hey, I'm prepared to do some "free" painting to help kids in our area get into gaming and grow the numbers at our local club/FLGS - if you want to chip in a few bucks to help me cover the cost of paint that'd be really appreciated".

Much easier than a worldwide appeal to people you don't know via Kickstarter.....

[finnian3@yahoo.com]

Local gaming scene for FOG is not too strong. Gaming buddies would rather I paint their stuff and lack the foresight to see the future of our hobby. Local gaming stores have distanced themselves from from my offer, and rightly so, for they feel that they would be endorsing one painter over another; they would rather stay as simple retailers.

I have much to think about. kickstarter has potential to fund my effort but at the same time, it could up my workload thus reducing the amount of time I would have to actually paint minis and then donate them. IT might be best to use Kickstarter to start up a miniature painting service and donate minis on the side. One way or another I will find a way to support new gamers in a substantial way.