When is an advance an advance?

[Narsesnobits]

This may be a really dumb question, but for an advance, what is the original front edge of an element when it makes a turn of either 90 or 180? Is it the position the front edge begins in, or the position the front is in after it has made the turn and before it begins to move.

I know what the Ruddock thinks ... but I was looking for other peoples views on this.

Cheers

Narses

[zoltan]

This may be a really dumb question, but for an advance, what is the original front edge of an element when it makes a turn of either 90 or 180? Is it the position the front edge begins in, or the position the front is in after it has made the turn and before it begins to move.

I know what the Ruddock thinks ... but I was looking for other peoples views on this.

Cheers

Narses

Your words indicate a before and after situation. Before I turn my front edge faces direction X. After I turn my front edge faces direction Y.

Given that the context is a choice between two front edges placed sequentially in time (X comes before Y), what is the most sensible way to interpret the meaning if the word 'original'? Does 'original' refer to something that comes earlier or later in time?

Example:
True or False? The local potter's imitation of an Ancient Greek vase pre-dated the original on which it was modelled.

[gozerius]

Odd question. The original front edge of an element is its position prior to any movement. Now, you mention a turn in conjunction with an advance. A turn coupled with an advance can be performed either before or after the advance. In either case the maximum move distance of the advance is reduced by 2 MUs. If you are wondering from what point you measure the reduced move, the answer is from the point of the start of the advance portion of the move.

Example: a BG of 4 Cav, in a 2x2 formation successfully passes its CMT to perform a 90 degree turn coupled with an advance. The advance portion of its move through open is reduced from 5MU to 3MU. The BG can advance up to 3 MU before executing the 90 degree turn. Conversely, it could turn 90 degrees and then advance up to 3 MUs. In neither case is the change in position of any element due to the turn factored into the move allowance of the advance.

The same applies to a BG of skirmishers doing a 180 degree turn with an advance. The BG advances up to 5 MUs and turns 180. The rear edge of the BG becomes its new front edge. The old front edge is now the rear edge and is 5 MU from the start point of the BGs original front edge. Conversely, the BG turns 180 and advances 5 MUs. The BGs old rear edge is now its front edge and is 5 MUs from its original position.

[zoltan]

A 2x2cav BG turns 90 degrees and makes an advance of a maximum of 3 MUs (5Mus minus 2 MUs) straight ahead. From which point is the 3MU distance measured:
A. From the original front edge of the BG (now the side edge, following the 90 degree turn), or
B. From the new front edge?

Similarly, to which point is the distance measured:
A. The actual front edge of the base, or
B. The actual side edge if the base?

[kevinj]

Gozerius has it. You advance and turn or turn and advance. In either case you measure the advance from the front as it is at the time you move.

[TamsinP]

A 2x2cav BG turns 180 degrees and makes an advance of a maximum of 3 MUs (5Mus minus 2 MUs) straight ahead. From which point is the 3MU distance measured:
A. From the original front edge of the BG (now the rear edge, following the 180 degree turn), or
B. From the new front edge?

Similarly, to which point is the distance measured:
A. The actual front edge of the base, or
B. The actual rear edge if the base?

Not a good example for the question as it is impossible for cavalry to make a 180 turn followed by a simple advance. Also, the move reduction only applies to 90 degree turns.

[zoltan]

A 2x2cav BG turns 180 degrees and makes an advance of a maximum of 3 MUs (5Mus minus 2 MUs) straight ahead. From which point is the 3MU distance measured:
A. From the original front edge of the BG (now the rear edge, following the 180 degree turn), or
B. From the new front edge?

Similarly, to which point is the distance measured:
A. The actual front edge of the base, or
B. The actual rear edge if the base?

Not a good example for the question as it is impossible for cavalry to make a 180 turn followed by a simple advance. Also, the move reduction only applies to 90 degree turns.

Fair enough smarty pants, so make it 90 degrees and now what's your answer?

[gozerius]

We have already answered this. The advance is measured from the front edge of the base at the point it advances: The new edge if it has turned before advancing; the original edge if it will turn at the end of its advance.
Again, A BG which turns and then advances measures from the NEW front edge of the BG.
A BG which advances and then turns uses its original front edge to measure the advance portion of its move. After turning its new front edge would be either the old side edge or rear edge depending on whether it was a 90 or 180 degree turn.

I don't know what you are looking for. In no case do you measure the total move of both the turn and advance combined. The turn follows the rules for turning. The advance follows the rules for advancing, and is the only portion of the move that you need to worry about move distance.

[TamsinP]

Fair enough smarty pants, so make it 90 degrees and now what's your answer?

More likely scruffy knickers as it happens, but my answer would have been the same as all the others so far - the measurement of the advance is from the front edge of the BG at the point when the advance is made. You could measure from the rear edge I suppose, but it's easier to do from the front edge.

[hazelbark]

I thought this thread was a debate about ancient greek imitation pottery?

[zoltan]

I thought this thread was a debate about ancient greek imitation pottery?

Q. What's a Grecian urn?

A. About 5 Euro per week.