Wheeling When Charging Potential Evaders

[bbotus]

Well, I finally read through the V2 book. One thing that I'm having trouble with is the bullet at the top of page 58: "If charging enemy who could evade, the charging BG cannot wheel beyond the position at which the enemy would be contacted if they did not evade. Exception: If all targets evade, the charging BG can wheel one front corner up to 1 MU....."

So, there is no one directly to my front and I wish to charge cav in a single rank off to my right. Does this mean that I am only allowed to wheel just enough so that my BG only hits the enemy end base by a gnat's todger? And, thereby, not being able to bring maximum bases to bear at impact? Alternatively, what does "the position at which the enemy would be contacted" mean? The proverbial gnat's todger or full center to center of the two BGs? And, why?

P.S. Haven't played a V2 game yet but it looks like a very good improvement.

[batesmotel]

You cannot wheel beyond the point where your wheel would contact the enemy BG. This is just a clarification of V1 where some players had wanted to wheel through the position occupied by the evaders in order to hit an enemy BG that was originally on the flank of the evaders. IT came up most often when the chargers began their charge very close to the enemy that would evade and hence could not wheel very much without contacting the enemy BG.

Chris

[grahambriggs]

Consider a HF battle group with enemy LF a Gnat's Todger in front, and no-one else nearby. In v1, the HF would have to charge straight. The was clarified in v1. In v2 it becomes part of the rules: " the charging BG cannot wheel beyond the position at which the enemy would be contacted if they did not evade".

However in V2, the LF evade, this triggers the exception "If all targets evade, the charging BG can wheel one front corner up to 1 MU". So, The HF can wheel a bit. This gets you round the daft situation in v1 where skirmishers could force proper troops to go straight ahead, when actually a slight wheel would get them facing in a better direction.

[petedalby]

As Graham says, a check back to the V1 FAQs would probably help you understand where this came from.

[bbotus]

I guess the part that gets me is that if I'm charging a LF unit and straight ahead clips them, I can't wheel at all until they evade (then only 1MU). But change the LF to HI and now I can wheel to get more bases into contact.

Well, maybe that is the advantage of skirmishers screening the rest of the troops.

[batesmotel]

I guess the part that gets me is that if I'm charging a LF unit and straight ahead clips them, I can't wheel at all until they evade (then only 1MU). But change the LF to HI and now I can wheel to get more bases into contact.

Well, maybe that is the advantage of skirmishers screening the rest of the troops.

Wrong, chargers would stop wheeling as soon as they contacted the enemy HF. They would not continue to wheel so that the charger's bases would be interpenetrating the enemy BG. Once the enemy HF BG was contacted, other bases could step forward if they meet the requirements to do so.

Chris

[bbotus]

I guess the part that gets me is that if I'm charging a LF unit and straight ahead clips them, I can't wheel at all until they evade (then only 1MU). But change the LF to HI and now I can wheel to get more bases into contact.

Well, maybe that is the advantage of skirmishers screening the rest of the troops.

Wrong, chargers would stop wheeling as soon as they contacted the enemy HF. They would not continue to wheel so that the charger's bases would be interpenetrating the enemy BG. Once the enemy HF BG was contacted, other bases could step forward if they meet the requirements to do so.

Chris

Did I misread page 57? I don't see anything there that says I must stop the wheel against troops that cannot evade as soon as I would make contact. It says the wheel cannot be made if it would result in less combat dice being thrown by the charging BG in impact than if it charged straight ahead. I understood that to mean that if straight ahead contacts 0 or even 1 base, then I could wheel to get 2 bases into contact for impact. What did I miss?

And, I don't understand what you mean about interpenetrating the enemy BG. I don't want to interpenetrate them. I want to skewer them.

[philqw78]

Wheel must be done at start of charge

Wheel as far as you want (upto 90 degrees):

if there is nothing you could contact continue wheel up to 90 degrees then continue move forwards

If you hit something during the wheel that cannot evade then stop at first contact, rest of bases step forwards if they can.

If some skirmishers are in the way wheel to the place where you would hit them and if this wheel is less than 1 MU increase it to one MU when/if they move out of the way. If they don't move out of the way see if you hit something above

If you do wheel at least as many of your bases must be capable of contact as would if you went straight forwards

I thought it was quite simple, but that made it easy for me to understand

[philqw78]

I don't see anything there that says I must stop the wheel against troops that cannot evade as soon as I would make contact.

Because if you continue to wheel after contact you are either double wheeling or wheeling after the start of the charge move, which you can't

[bbotus]

Oh, I see my problem. I misstated my question. I didn''t mean to keep wheeling after my bases actually touched the enemy. I meant to wheel to the point where a straight forward move would contact them. So if I'm wheeling against heavies, I can wheel to get extra bases lined up against the enemy BG and then move forward to contact. But with evaders I can only wheel to the gnat's todger contact line. I guess I understand but it just seems strange. Although in V1, we did have many discussions about the wheeling situation against skirmishers.

[batesmotel]

Oh, I see my problem. I misstated my question. I didn''t mean to keep wheeling after my bases actually touched the enemy. I meant to wheel to the point where a straight forward move would contact them. So if I'm wheeling against heavies, I can wheel to get extra bases lined up against the enemy BG and then move forward to contact. But with evaders I can only wheel to the gnat's todger contact line. I guess I understand but it just seems strange. Although in V1, we did have many discussions about the wheeling situation against skirmishers.

Against skirmishers you can wheel exactly the same as against the HF with the additional bonus that you can do an extra 1 MU wheel if all the targets evade.

Chris

[bbotus]

Against skirmishers you can wheel exactly the same as against the HF with the additional bonus that you can do an extra 1 MU wheel if all the targets evade.
Chris

Now I'm confused again.

First of all, I thought I read that if I charge skirmishers straight ahead and they evade but stay in my charge path, then I have the option to wheel up to 1 MU. But if I must wheel over 1 MU to get on a charge path to contact them, then I don't get any change in my charge path unless all targets of the charge evade out of the charge path.

And, why do you say it doesn't matter if they are skirmishers or HF? The RAW seems, to me, to make specific distinctions with separate paragraphs.

[philqw78]

The wheel must be at the start of the charge

If skirmishers are so close that you cannot wheel 1 MU without reaching their position before they evade then once they evade you can wheel up to 1 MU

providing no less bases would hit.

[bbotus]

That is what I thought. What about the heavies? If I need to wheel to charge HF off to my left, do I have the same restrictions as skirmishers for the wheel as I think Chris said? Or can I wheel enough to get a couple bases into impact (Assume I have the movement needed)?

[philqw78]

That is what I thought. What about the heavies? If I need to wheel to charge HF off to my left, do I have the same restrictions as skirmishers for the wheel as I think Chris said? Or can I wheel enough to get a couple bases into impact (Assume I have the movement needed)?

You can wheel up to 90 degrees at the start of the move. Or until contact or until you don't want to wheel any more

Once you think you have wheeled as far as you wish, so you can hit with more or at least equal bases as straight ahead(and <=less than 90) go straight forwards to contact and step forward bases that can.

If you hit some Battle troops that do not evade during the wheel stop on contact and bases step forward where possible

If you hit(would have hit) evaders during the wheel and you had not yet wheeled 1MU you can increase the wheel to 1MU once they are out of the way

Unless evaders get in the way the only thing that alters the wheel from being up to 90 at the start of the move is hitting less bases if you wheel that far

The other thing could be an intercept but now you're just complicating things

[gozerius]

Well, an intercept imposes a new charge target into the charge path, so the original charge path remains fixed. Unless you are talking about a intercept charge into flank or rear, which makes the question of wheeling moot.

[bbotus]

Thanks for all the comments. It helped.

[philqw78]

Well, an intercept imposes a new charge target into the charge path, so the original charge path remains fixed. Unless you are talking about a intercept charge into flank or rear, which makes the question of wheeling moot.

Unless the intercept gets in the way of the wheel, or as you said is in the flank. And it will almost certainly alter the number of bases stepping forwards

[petedalby]

providing no less bases would hit.

I'm not sure that's strictly true Phil - isn't it the number of dice in V2? Could be a factor.

[bbotus]

providing no less bases would hit.

I'm not sure that's strictly true Phil - isn't it the number of dice in V2? Could be a factor.

You are correct. It is the number of combat dice that is the governing factor (page 57). Always helps to go back to the RAW for a refresher.