High scores, and such stuff

[moj]

I decided to have a concerted effort to achieve a 'high score', and set a new PB on my first (and only) attempt: 1,121,065. This represents 97.3992181% perfection and is the first time I've got beyond 1,120k.

I'll admit to sustaining a total of 178 low-grade fatalities for 'Lingering Gauls' and Vadimo Lake. These troops (if they deserve the name) were disbanded without being healed, which in hindsight might be cheating in a high score game.

I'll also admit to throwing points away on a number of 'survival' battles, namely Claudine Forks, Siege of Arretium, Messana, Baggradas, Crossing the Alps, and Sambre River. With the last three in particular the temptation to try and win rather than merely survive is too great (managed it at Baggradas this time; got within a single shaken unit at the other two). I suspect that a better end score can be achieved by putting out as small a force as possible and, where necessary, running one's legate around the screen for the last 40 minutes. Put another way, I doubt that the benefit of extra XP for one's units will result in sufficiently fewer deaths over the later battles to outweigh the immediate healing cost.

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Baggradas (1390)
2) Second Macedonian War (1280)
3) Aquae Sextiae (1260)
4) Campanian Allies (1155)
=5) Crossing the Alps (1080)
=5) Cisalpine Gaul (1080)

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards (I view this as the midpoint of the game, and obviously many of the early battles are near-as-damn-it casualty-free):
1) Bibracte (60)
2) Grannacus (80)
3) Pharsalus (170)
4) Mount Versusius (200)
5) Avignon (245)
Sadly I didn't get four sets of miracle bows in time for Philippi, so a lossless win was beyond me

Looking at the above, it's evident that my enthusiasm at Baggradas and Crossing the Alps cost me dear. I'll have to be more disciplined on my second attempt.

Has anyone else given it a go?

[moj]

Hmmmm. 'Conservation' is trickier than I thought.

1,120,345 points (down 720)
17,645 casualties inflicted (down 529, but excluding Sambre River down just 29)
3,911 casualties suffered (down a mere 11)

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Second Macedonian War (1525)
=2) Cisalpine Gaul (1180)
=2) Dertosia (1180)
=2) Zama (1180)
5) Siege of Arretium (1155) - cf 670 on an offensive strategy

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards:
1) Grannacus (60)
2) Mount Versusius (100)
3) Pharsalus (130)
4) Ambush at Divo (160)
5) Sambre River (195) - cf 570 when offensive, but inflicted only 17 casualties rather than 517

Going 3x Auxiliaries followed by 3x Aux Archers prior to first Praetorian, rather than 2x Auxiliaries then 4x Aux Archers, produced some huge comparative point swings over the early battles, but by the midpoint battle - Alalia, 35 - I was a massive 10 points down

Was last ahead after Cannae, but from Dertosia onwards (an 880 point swing) it was downhill all the way.

[Redpossum]

Interesting stuff, moj, interesting stuff indeed.

Do you have CoM?

[moj]

Obsessive stuff, moj, obsessive stuff indeed.

*edges backwards slowly*

Why thank you, kind sir.

Attempt 3, and another highscore. Sadly I lost my spreadsheet and I only have individual battle records from Aginnum onwards, so the below comparisons are across the final 21 battles only.

1,123,600 points (2,535 increase on PB)
6,615 casualties inflicted (cf 6,788 in the first/record attempt, and 6,148 in the second 'defensive' attempt)
1,219 casualties suffered (cf 1,357 and 1,212 respectively)

Four of those last 21 battles cost 50 points or fewer (Mount Versuvius, Grannacus, End of the Dream, and Philippi) - something I didn't manage in *any* battle beyond Men in Black in either of the first two attempts.

The one major setback was Zela, which cost me 1,755 heal points: significantly more than the combined cost of the battle in my first two attempts. I'm still not entirely sure what went wrong there, but I threw away at least 1000 points.

The secret of my success?

1) I reverted to 'offensive but sensible'. Didn't go balls out for the win in survival battles (you know, Baggradas: throwing shaken auxillia against decent heavies out in the open with your archers down to their last arrow) but generally took the fight to the enemy.

2) Bought aux/aux/arch/arch/arch/arch rather than aux/aux/aux/arch/arch/arch. I really don't have need for three auxiliary infantry. On the couple of occasions I need to send Praetorians into the woods they don't appear to fare any worse than the auxiliary units. Further, there are at least ten battles which feature scrubby areas which are simply made to be occupied by two aux inf, but don't have room for three

3) I stopped at four Praetorians, so my army was 2x aux, 4x aux arch, 2x aux cav, and 4x Praetorian. This meant that the 1200 gold saved on buying a fifth Praetorian could be spent on armour/weapons, and I believe that four upgraded Praetorians perform better than five stock units at Cynoscephalae (especially as one of them is L4/5). Beyond Cynoscephalae there isn't a single battle that requires the additional muscle of a fifth unit.

4) I believe all three points above contributed to increased archer experience. I got my first wünderbow in time for Pharsalus (sixth-to-last battle) and a further two wünderbows by Thapsus. These obviously minimise 'contact' and limit the number of casualties taken. And no, I still don't know what went wrong at Zela.

Do you have CoM?

No, thankfully. I tend to play games obsessively for a period of a month, then put them away for a year. I'm coming to the end of my first LA infatuation and the last thing I need right now is a shiny copy of CoM! I'm sure I'll treat myself to it next year.

I'm not overly taken with the fantasy element, but the 'no healing' series of battles sounds interesting. Would have been nice to see similarly linked battles in LA.

[moj]

1,126,025 points (2,425 increase on PB)
17,928 casualties inflicted (similar to first two; marginally down over final 21 battles compared to third attempt)
3,245 casualties suffered (cf 39xx in first two attempts; 1157 v 1219 over last 21 compared to third)

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Second Macedonian War (1110)
2) A Small Victory (1065)
3) Siege of Arretium (970)
4) Vadimo Lake (955)
5) Thapsus (850)

Next mini-challenge: keep every battle under four figures. The problem will be Cynoscephalae.

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards:
=1) Grannacus (50)
=1) Pharsalus (50)
=1) Philippi (50)
4) Mount Versuvius (120)
5) Aginnum (185)

By no means a perfect game: I was nearly 1,400 points down on the game recorded in my first post, just before Vadimo Lake. I still can't bring myself to try to absolutely minimise losses in the 'survive for x minutes' battles.

Exciting strategic innovation: I only bought one cavalry unit, so had 2x auxiliaries, 4x auxiliary archers, 1x auxiliary cavalry and 4x Praetorians. I believe that spending that 1200 gold on armour/weaponry rather than on horsemeat was significant.

[moj]

1,126,845 points (820 increase on PB)
18,142 casualties inflicted (highest yet)
3,174 casualties suffered (lowest yet)

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Second Macedonian War (1490)
2) Aquae Sextiae (870)
3) Cisalpine Gaul (830)
4) Nicopolis (810)
5) Zela (770)

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards:
1) Grannacus (0)
2) Pharsalus (75)
3) Ambush at Divo (80)
4) Mount Versuvius (120)
5) Bibracte (145)

Similar to the fourth attempt, but more so. Was even more off the pace in the battles leading up to Vadimo Lake: around 2,000 points down on my first attempt. Appears that having a 4/2 archers/auxilia split is expensive in the short term, when compared to a 3/3 split.

Points total would have been around 400 higher had I not decided to see how a single Praetorian unit with maxxed out weaponry, armour and footwear would perform at Philippi

Had a unit of archers take out the opposition bowmen, then sent the Praetorians in. It seems that pila can still cause some hurt , but the Liberatores' swords merely tickle...

[moj]

1,132,525 points (5680 increase on PB)
18,064 casualties inflicted (marginally lower than before)
2,521 <b>healed</b> casualties suffered (553 down on previous low)

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Second Macedonian War (915)
2) Zela (745)
3) Siege of Arretium (715)
=4) Cisalpine Gaul (670)
=4) Thirst for Gaul (670)

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards:
=1) Mount Versusius (0)
=1) Grannacus (0)
=1) Phiippi (0)
4) Bibracte (40)
5) Ambush at Divo (45)

My most 'conservative' effort yet, but I still got stuck in at times: Siege of Arretium and Sambre River were both very rare 'wins'. I didn't significantly mess up at any point (although I was still unable to match the wondrous first 25 or so battles of my very first attempt). One big difference was use of cannon fodder...

I'm forced to resort to disposable troops at Vadimo Lake and, for some reason, Lingering Gauls. Just a couple of peasants to slow things down for my archers. In this campaign, however, I used them in a further eleven battles up to and including Malventum. I'd like to take a moment to thank those 827 poor peasants who gave their lives.

*pauses*

These throwaway units were generally used to take the sting out of enemy skirmishers and to clog up the battlefield. I didn't record how many kills they made, but I doubt it was more than 20-30 in total. Didn't actually seem to have a positive effect on my archers' XP - I only got my first Magic Bow on the penultimate battle - nor a negative effect on my other troops' XP. And in a lot of cases it didn't have any impact on the number of casualties I ended up healing.

The second major difference was the use of only three Praetorian units rather than my usual four, giving me an army of:
4x auxiliary archers
2x auxilia
1x auxiliary cavalry
3x Praetorians

I didn't miss the fourth Praetorian unit at Cynoscephalae, and ducked under the 1000 heal point barrier for the first time. There are one or two later battles where it would have been *nice* to have had the one extra unit to deploy but its absence didn't lead to my archers being exposed to melee. With just three Praetorians I was able to kit them out to level 5+ armour and weapons relatively early in the game. Ultimately I had more money than I could spend...

Right, that's it. I'm all LAed out for the next few months.

The target is <b>1,132,525</b>.

Go on, give it a spin...

[moj]

Seeing as how the weather was so vile this weekend...

1,135,730 points (5205 increase on PB)
18,368 casualties inflicted (highest by nearly 200)
2,311 <b>healed</b> casualties suffered (over 200 improvement on previous low)
963 <b>unhealed</b> casualties suffered

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Vadimo Lake (965)
3) Zama (900)
4) Giants of Noreia (790)
4) Second Macedonain War (760)
5) Baggradas (745)

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards:
=1) Grannacus (0)
=1) Phiippi (0)
3) Ambush at Divo (30)
4) Bibracte (35)
5) Avignon (90)

Had a 'bash' prior to this attempt with six archers, and broke the 1,130k barrier without really trying. This time I thought I'd go for a third auxiliary infantry unit because they're 5pt rather than 10pt heals. Worked a treat: in the later battles, with auxilia kitted out to level 7/8 armour and sat in difficult terrain, they're *very* hard to shift. The Praetorians were able to sit out from quite a few of the later battles.

The big revelation, however, was at Cynoscephalae. Having bought eight auxiliary infantry and archer units my third and fourth Praetorians were still underpowered at the time of this battle, so I simply disbanded them. Any heavy infantry below level 10 at Cynoscephalae is going to get minced while recording half a dozen kills at most, even if it's got level 3 armour and weapons. The 2400 gold went on further toys for the other infantry. In the next attempt (I've got my second wind) I'll stick with two Praetorians, although it might make Zama a bit tricky. The only scenario where I missed the grunt of a third Praetorian unit was Giants of Noreia: those big German guys make a real mess of auxilia, even when they're all splashing about in the river.

Final army composition:
5x auxiliary archers (L25-L27)
3x auxilia (L24-27)
2x Praetorians (L17 + L20)

PS: the highlight was Vadimo Lake: I managed to win it with the five archers, three auxilia, and a raw Praetorian unit, without recourse to fielding any peasanty dross. I believe it's the first time I've managed to do this, which means I can now win every battle without recourse to non-healing battlefield cloggers...

[moj]

Attempt 8: 3x auxilia, 5x auxiliary archers, 2x Praetorian, 1x auxiliary cavalry: minor increase in high score
Attempt 9: 2x auxilia, 6x auxiliary archers, 2x Praetorian: very minor decrease
Attempt 10: 4x auxilia, 6x auxiliary archers, 2x Praetorian: bingo!

1,138,580 points (2850 increase on posted PB)
18,416 casualties inflicted (new high)
2129 <b>healed</b> casualties suffered (new low)
1247 <b>unhealed</b> casualties suffered (new high)

Five most expensive battles in terms of heal points:
1) Second Macedonian War (740)
2) Pydna (575)
3) Syrian War (565)
4) Zama (515)
5) Cisalpine Gaul (510)

Five cheapest battles from Second Macedonian War onwards:
1) Mount Versuvius (25)
2) Ambush at Divo (40)
3) Grannacus (60)
4) Pharsalus (90)
5) Avignon (100)

Compared to my sixth attempt those five cheapest battles are relatively expensive. I think I was too ready to hold back the 10pt heal Praetorians in favour of the 5pt heal Auxiliaries in some of these battles. Evidently a false economy.

Once those four auxiliaries are on appropriate terrain and the six archers get to work it's a turkey shoot: I <i>won</i> rather than <i>survived</i> Seige of Arretium and Sambre River for 160 and 305 heal points respectively.

The only battle which caused me pain was Aquae Sextaie, but that was because the game absolutely insisted that I should win the battle rather than just kill the general. Not nice in 100 minutes and without cavalry.

The next target would be 1,140k, but I feel a little guilty about all those peasants. I'm now moving on to a 'no peasants' game: no use of human waves. The only battle I see as being a problem is Lingering Gauls... I think I'll need three auxiliaries and one archer rather than my usual 2/2 split for that one. I used to be able to do it, but don't recall the army composition.

[moj]

The next target would be 1,140k, but I feel a little guilty about all those peasants. I'm now moving on to a 'no peasants' game: no use of human waves. The only battle I see as being a problem is Lingering Gauls... I think I'll need three auxiliaries and one archer rather than my usual 2/2 split for that one. I used to be able to do it, but don't recall the army composition.

Played a couple of peasantless games and immediately discovered that removing the peasantry doesn't seem to have much influence on my scoring: was breaking 1,138k quite easily. I believe the major difference was that I was upgrading my first auxilia as quickly as possible, and *never* engaging level 1 units (simply 'observing' a single battle is sufficient to raise to L2, which allows them Grade 1 armour/weapon upgrades). Auxilia with Grade 2 armour/weaponry on rough terrain is almost untouchable in melee for the first half of the game. Lingering Gauls is not a problem with two upgraded auxilia and no archers. The only battle which is tricky due to the limited number of units is Etruscan Treachery in 120 minutes with two auxilia and two archers, but I started to hold back on the upgrades to get a third auxilia prior the the battle.

Having been encouraged by the performance of my auxilia, even in the open, I decided to try a <b>no heavy infantry strategy</b>. For Arrettium, Vadimo Lake and Cisalpine Gaul (the best run of battles in the whole game, imo) I was up to 5x auxilia and 3/4x archers and won all three *easily* (Arrettium with over an hour remaining). Previously I would be using a Praetorian unit to act as a shield for my auxiliary archers, but upgraded auxilia perform better when taking into account the fact that they're half the heal cost. The only time I missed the heavy mob was up against those evil giants.

So, after one 1,139k 'auxiliaries only' campaign, I finally broke the 1,140k:



I got tired of spreadsheeting so no facts'n'figures I'm afraid (other than to note that one of the auxilia apparently managed 277 kills in a single battle). In hindsight I'd not bother with the two auxiliary cavalry. Neither got to the level of being truly menacing, and in the battle in which I think I truly need them - Zela, to intercept that pesky column of wandering cavalry - they contributed next to nothing.

That's it, I'm truly sick of the sight of LA and shall be taking a long holiday

Merry Christmas one and all.[/img]

[Teruyuki]

My best was trying to use only 2 units plus legate
I ended up with a level 186 legate (could only upgrade it 135 while playing though or it would freeze on me)
Light infantry with full kit upgrades levels 61 and 57.
1,115,360 fame

Some of the timed battles are tough in the middle.

[pgeerkens]

First try with a Legion Arena Sqads.txt on VH, and I did reasonably: 1,138,420 XP which easily dwarfs my best record with GBOR rules. It's not the 1,140,000+ mark yet, but holds hope.

I employed:
2 Aux,
1 Skirm,
1 Nobles,
4 Aux Arch,
1 Triari,
3 Praet, and
1 Aux Cav

My upgrade strategy emphasises:
Bull's Eyes and Drill for missilers;
Dodge/Parry & Anti-Inf/Trample for light troops & cavalry;
Anti-Cav, Cav Prot and Stand Firm for the Triari;
Anti-Inf and Inf. Prot for other heavy infantry; and
Swordsmanship for all non-missilers.

In retrospect, I could probably have profited from two scouts instead of the Nobles and Aux. Cav as a cavalry arm. Cavalry was dedicated to overwhelming enemy missilers, and scouts due the job almost as well as heavy cav in most cases, plus they are half the cost and can be purchased much earlier.

P.S. I made very liberal use of peasant pin-cushions, whenever I had the denarii.

[pgeerkens]

The thread here () continues the same thoughts as this one.