Tactical Advice Sought - Mounted v Infantry

[Dragnipur]

I have a number of situations I'm looking for some tactical advice. ( Assume opposition have IC, rear support and always pass moral checks )

1) Attacking exposed flank. I've a cav/knight army v Drilled armoured infantry deployed in a box with exposed flank. Hinge point is behind rough terrain. I have never managed this to my advantage. I cannot get cav/knights into position quick enough. Also once behind a flank what do the LH do? Just continue shooting?

2) Knights v Infantry frontally. Infantry could be Medium or Heavy, undrilled or drilled generally 6-8 ele BGs.
One bound prior to contact infantry (whether drilled or undrilled) pass CMT to contract to one element wide. Knights go in, didn't get enough hits then bounce. Any tricks to counter this?

3) Protect Shooty cv v archers. Is it better to go into line or get as many LH BGs in as well?

4) Prot Shooty cv + LH bow v elephants. Elephants will be in line of 4 BGs. In one game I tried to screen knights with CV + LH but just didn't stop the elephants.

5) LH charge LF jav. Light Foot hold to receive the charge then beat up LH. Both times I've played against this opponent he has done this to me.

Any help will be appreciated.

[ShrubMiK]

1) Once you have LH in the enemy's flank/rear you should be looking for opportunities to charge in. Usually when the enemy are already at least disrupted. And usually in combination with something else attacking them frontally - the -1 for fighting in 2 directions can make it very worthwhile to do so - but sometimes even just on their own it can be worth a gamble, once the enemy are fragmented you don't lose half of the LH dice.

Even if you don't actually charge in with your LH, you can make the opponent worry about the possibility and gain an advantage elsewhere as a result.

2) I may be wrong, but this reads like you think the horsies bounce after impact. Au contraire, you get melee first. And if the foot don't exand back out in melee you'll outdice them greatly.

Not much you can do about the situation in impact though. Other than to play with "normal" people who would frown on using such obviously gamey tactics

3) You proably don't want to hang around with multi-ranked prot cav in front of any missile fire if you can help it. Either go into line, or protect them as best you can for one turn with LH etc. on their flanks, and charge.

4) Don't let the nellies get near to your knights in the first place. "Screen" with stuff that can evade, and try to tempt the nellies to charge in directions other than directly towards the knights. Find something more useful for the knights to engage before it is too late!

5) That shouldn't really happen. The LH are on normal dice, the LF on half dice. Even with LF having the benefit of javs in impact phase it sounds like you were unlucky. Twice! (Okay...a slight caveat I just thought of...if you are charging with a 4 base LH BG into the middle of an 8 base LF BG that will offset the dice advantage when you get to melee. IF so, make sure you charge at one end so the LF can't get all bases into combat for a while, and even better make sure you use 2 BGs of LH not just one )

[eldiablito]

Also, mounted are REALLY only worried about spear and pike. ...Well, and longbow with stakes placed... Assuming pikes, a frontal charge with knights are down -- because of 4 steady pikes per column.

So, how do you deal with that? Impact will always be hard IF you are fighting to the front, alone, without support. In an ideal situation, you charge the flank or rear with your LH at the same time as you charge with your Cavalry or Knights. The LH will not have to deal with the PoA issues because they get an automatic ++. Also, the pike stand has to turn and face your own LH, so the frontal charge is not dealing with the PoA for multiple ranks (perhaps only one - because only the back rank of pike turns). So, on the charge, your knights hit on 5s and your LH hit on 3s. The enemy pike block hits on 4s against the knights and 5s against the LH. Based on your projections, you can expect 1 hit for your lancers and 1 hit from the LH. The pike block should hit the knights 2 times (if you're lucky, the hits are split evenly so it's a tie). Well, not the greatest odds for you, but I don't see you disrupting any time soon.

Now for the upcoming melee... You get to expand on either side if fighting in a void, but more likely, you can only expand on one side. Your knights now get 6 dice and unless the pike block is silly, they should expand too. The pike block still only gets their single PoA for 3 ranks of steady pike (well, for 1 column). Now your knights/cavalry get better armour and the enemy is fighting in 2 directions! Your knights hit on 4s and the pikes hit on 5s! Meanwhile the LH should have the PoA for the enemy is fighting in 2 directions and the pike block has better armour. Your knights should get 1 hit on the worst column, 2-3 hits on the twisted column (due to overlaps and better PoA). Your LH should get 1 hit. The pikes will in turn get 2 hits on the knights and 0-1 hits against the LH... That's some decent odds for making the pike block lose a stand on the death roll and even odds that the block will drop a cohesion level (because you said the IC was in that unit).

Okay, you'll likely bounce, but now in one column the pike block is only 3 stands deep in one column and loses one of their precious PoA! You'll crack that nut on your next charge. That deals with one of your questions...

[eldiablito]

3) Protect Shooty cv v archers. Is it better to go into line or get as many LH BGs in as well?

Cavalry should probably be in 1 rank (most of the time against archers and heavier cavalry) so they can flee when charged and reduce the shooting PoA against them. Meanwhile, your LH are wrapping the flank to get even more shooting dice on your opponent. Eventually, that hanging BG will start to drop cohesion levels or fail death rolls.

4) Prot Shooty cv + LH bow v elephants. Elephants will be in line of 4 BGs. In one game I tried to screen knights with CV + LH but just didn't stop the elephants.

Focus as many dice as you can on the end elephant BG. If your opponent has 4 BGs of elephants, then they are spending 200 points on 1 fragile type of BG! Try to shoot them with javelins . Also, I saw one friend hold up an elephant BG with a LF javelin unit because of the PoA advantages. No one will do any damage to each other, but your 24 point BG of LF is holding up 50 points of elephants, that's some decent use of your points!

5) LH charge LF jav. Light Foot hold to receive the charge then beat up LH. Both times I've played against this opponent he has done this to me.

LH should get 4 dice on the charge and in melee. The LF should only get 2 dice on impact and 3 in melee (assuming the average size of 6 bases per BG). Let's start with impact: Your 4 dice that hit on 5s will get 1-2 hits. The LF should get 1 hit. There's a tie. Now melee: Your 4 dice hit on 4s, so you should certainly expect 2 hits. The LF have 3 dice, so they should get 1-2 hits. It sounds like a close tie but with you on the advantage. If you have swordsmen then the LF are now hitting on 5s in melee so they are getting a consistent 1 hit to your 2 hits. That's even better! However, if I am assuming correctly, you are using bow/swordsmen LH to his javelin/light spear LF. If so, then you can easily swarm his skirmisher line and out-shoot his skirmishers until someone drops a to disrupted. When that happens, then you charge in and his 3 dice for melee have dropped to 2 and there is a good chance that he will get zero hits in melee. Heck, I've seen many people do exactly the same thing you described in reverse (just charge in and beat up the LF). You should be winning this battle. You are looking at the number of dice chart that says LF get half dice on impact and melee except against other LF and fragmented BGs? Also, did you see that LH get half dice on impact and melee except against skirmishers and fragmented BGs? LH have a dice advantage.

[peterrjohnston]

LH should get 4 dice on the charge and in melee. The LF should only get 2 dice on impact and 3 in melee (assuming the average size of 6 bases per BG). Let's start with impact: Your 4 dice that hit on 5s will get 1-2 hits. The LF should get 1 hit. There's a tie.

That would be 4 dice at 5 in uneven terrain only.

If rough or difficult, the LH lose dice. If open terrain, the POA's would both be even, both at 4, or a net +POA for the LH if they have JLS or lance.

[grahambriggs]

I have a number of situations I'm looking for some tactical advice. ( Assume opposition have IC, rear support and always pass moral checks )

1) Attacking exposed flank. I've a cav/knight army v Drilled armoured infantry deployed in a box with exposed flank. Hinge point is behind rough terrain. I have never managed this to my advantage. I cannot get cav/knights into position quick enough. Also once behind a flank what do the LH do? Just continue shooting?

A good option is to charge in frontally at the same time as the LH charge the flank. That gives you a +1 POA for the enemy fighting in two directions and you may well be rolling more dice than the enemy as well. If you wait and shoot, something will shoo off the LH.

[grahambriggs]

2) Knights v Infantry frontally. Infantry could be Medium or Heavy, undrilled or drilled generally 6-8 ele BGs.
One bound prior to contact infantry (whether drilled or undrilled) pass CMT to contract to one element wide. Knights go in, didn't get enough hits then bounce. Any tricks to counter this?

Excellent. Suicidal infantry.

A number of ways to do this:

- get to 2MU or less in the previous move. They can't contract in a restricted area.

- Let them do it. If the IC move to them as well them he can't help other units you may be charging. If he doesn't, losing the impact will be a Cohesion test at at least -1 (1HP3B, lost to lancers, rear support). Good chance of disruption and they're effectively dead. The foot can only expand out on file and you'll be 6 dice against 4 or 3 in the melee.

- wheel a bit in the carge. You're allowed to as it doesn't reduce the number of bases you'l hit. Wheel so your bases will step forward into the second rank of foot. Two bases touching two bases means 4 dice at impact.

[grahambriggs]

3) Protect Shooty cv v archers. Is it better to go into line or get as many LH BGs in as well?

It's rarely good to be 2 deep with protected cavalry unless the archers are unsteady. They'll hit you with 3 dice needing threes so you'll take lots of cohesion tests. And you can't evade if something charges you.

[grahambriggs]

4) Prot Shooty cv + LH bow v elephants. Elephants will be in line of 4 BGs. In one game I tried to screen knights with CV + LH but just didn't stop the elephants.

They are unlikely to stop the elephants while the elephants are in a mass, but lots of shooting around does make it dangerous for the elephants to break up. Two dice per elephant BG does little but 6 dice against an isolated group will take it down in time.

So while your shooters keep the elephants clumped up, move the knights away (better still, don't deploy the knights near the elephants in the first place).

[grahambriggs]

5) LH charge LF jav. Light Foot hold to receive the charge then beat up LH. Both times I've played against this opponent he has done this to me.

What sort of LH are you charging him with? Sounds like they had no impact or melee POAs.

Let's say you have 4 Bow only LH, he has 6 light spear javelin LF:

Impact: you get 4 dice needing 5s He gets 2 dice (LF get half dice vs LH) needing 4s. Youshould shade it.

Melee: you get 4 dice, he gets 3. Both need 4s. You should shade it.

The LF rarely get any better (a very few are protected, they tend not to have swords). LH on the other hands quite often get swords. Plus, if the LF win they usuallly remain steady, in which case you break off. If they disrupt you don't and they are in real trouble.

[peterrjohnston]

Impact: you get 4 dice needing 5s He gets 2 dice (LF get half dice vs LH) needing 4s. Youshould shade it.

@Dragnipur didn't state where the impact was, in open, uneven or rough/difficult. LH with no impact capability would be 4s each in open, 5s in uneven.

[Dragnipur]

Thanks guys some useful stuff.

1) With flank attacks is easier said then done. If I have knights trying to pin infantry in the front it takes 5+ bounds to bring them up and the opponent will redploy reserves or push up any LF to slow them down. It easier for the opponent to turn 90 degrees then it is for CV or Kn to get into a flanking position.
2) Thanks Graham that's on the money thats the sort of advice I was looking for. Another scenario I've encountered is where opposition infantry have expanded a half element into my charge "zone" and the lancers original target has evaded and exposed the infantry to just a toe nail and have been clipped by the charging knights. This just stalls the knights.
4) Two games v elephants knights were deployed elsewhere but the last game elephants still ran over top of Cv + LH. I think I got one BG. The problem is that I ran out of room.
5) LH in the open with bow & sword and really bad dice throws. Next time I face this opponent - 2 BGs of LH to clear the LF!

[grahambriggs]

Thanks guys some useful stuff.

1) With flank attacks is easier said then done. If I have knights trying to pin infantry in the front it takes 5+ bounds to bring them up and the opponent will redploy reserves or push up any LF to slow them down. It easier for the opponent to turn 90 degrees then it is for CV or Kn to get into a flanking position.
2) Thanks Graham that's on the money thats the sort of advice I was looking for. Another scenario I've encountered is where opposition infantry have expanded a half element into my charge "zone" and the lancers original target has evaded and exposed the infantry to just a toe nail and have been clipped by the charging knights. This just stalls the knights.
4) Two games v elephants knights were deployed elsewhere but the last game elephants still ran over top of Cv + LH. I think I got one BG. The problem is that I ran out of room.
5) LH in the open with bow & sword and really bad dice throws. Next time I face this opponent - 2 BGs of LH to clear the LF!

1) Yes, your opponent is likely to cover any obvious gaps by the time you get there. They may even be deliberately making their line look weak so that you'll commit your mounted. It's important to be able to work out whether the line will still be weak when you get there or not.

2) With practice, you'll see this coming a move or two previously and be able to find the knights a better situation in which to charge.

4) The Cav and LH will sometimes run out of room and get chased off table. But they are faster and more manouverable tthan elephants so should take advantage of that to maximise your chances. In particular, don't stand in front of the elephants if you can avoid it and realise if/when your initial objective of shooting down the elephantshas failed and you now need to minimise your losses.

5) No,no,no! Just sent one bow/sword LH. You want your opponent to think that his LF will win so don't scare them with too much LH. You've been unlucky twice but you shouldn't make the error of assuming it'll always happen. Tell you what, play out the 6 LF vs 4 LH solo ten times. The LH will win 7 or 8 times I should say. Also, when you win and the LF run, sometimes it'll be during the opponets turn. Which can be really handy when it's your turn next.

[Polkovnik]

I have a number of situations I'm looking for some tactical advice. ( Assume opposition have IC, rear support and always pass moral checks )

1) Attacking exposed flank. I've a cav/knight army v Drilled armoured infantry deployed in a box with exposed flank. Hinge point is behind rough terrain. I have never managed this to my advantage. I cannot get cav/knights into position quick enough. Also once behind a flank what do the LH do? Just continue shooting?

A good option is to charge in frontally at the same time as the LH charge the flank. That gives you a +1 POA for the enemy fighting in two directions and you may well be rolling more dice than the enemy as well. If you wait and shoot, something will shoo off the LH.

If the enemy foot are Spears or Pikes, try to charge them in the rear with as wide a frontage of LH as possible. If you hit 2 deep spear or 4 deep pike in the rear they will lose an additional POA to the front, due to the loss of ranks.