Supply, cities and isolation

uk4caster · Post by **uk4caster** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 2:48 pm

I haven't seen this mentioned elsewhere, but I feel there are some problems when units in cities are isolated. Firstly I understand they remain in supply...at this scale probably OK...but if they take losses they seem to rebuild back upto 10 time and again. This also allows some of the neutrals amazing powers of resistance e.g Denmark. Where is all this manpower coming from? I had an example of the Germans in Paris holding off permanently an admittedly fairly weak Allied invasion force when surrounded. I think they replacement / reinforcement effect of cities is just overdone.....maybe this would fit in somewhere with the plans to make some nations manpower levels more realistic?

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 3:43 pm

A Isolated city has "HALF_SUPPLY" which in the current version is 3. This means you can reinforce 3 strength per turn. Knowing this, you can attack and wear out the enemy. For instance a strength 10 garrison brough down to 4 on turn one will reinforce to 4+3=7 which means a good chance of wiping it out on the 2nd turn. But if you can only score 3 damage per turn then yes the enemy will reinforce those 3 strength back each turn.

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:53 pm

AHA! (light bulb goes on over head)

I've been playing this thing since beta started, and I just now made the connection between supply level and max points of reinforcement!

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:06 pm

possum wrote:AHA! (light bulb goes on over head)

I've been playing this thing since beta started, and I just now made the connection between supply level and max points of reinforcement!

Too fun to play CEaW and too dull to read the manual, hey?

uk4caster · Post by **uk4caster** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:27 pm

Thanks. ... I'll try again! Overall the game is great I think just about the right balance between detail and playability...it is addictive... I HAD to play through to the end whereas with many games there is just too much micromanagement for this strategic level. I do have a couple of other questions / comments though.....

1. In the manual, apart from neutrals I couldn't see any differences in quality between national armies apart from research. Is that correct? It is just that I found the Italians to be just abit too effective (at least if AI) in Russia. They seemed to pour out endless masses of infantry and tanks and actually took Moscow rather than the Germans. I was playing with FOW so couldn't see their exact details. The other thing in this game was that when I invaded both France and Italy in 42 to try and take the pressure off the Russians, neither seemed to weaken their attack there nor send much back home. I figured the AI was either very smart or very stupid.......stupid because it didn't rapidly recognise the threat at home...or brilliant because they knew they were so close to victory in Russia and that the invasions were weak!..... neither invasion could capture a port for supply......Anyway the point again was how much if any difference in National quality of forces is there at start (1939) ?....and are the Italians too good!

2. Damaged naval forces seemed to repair as easily as other units which seemed too easy (although I think the cost was much higher). I guess it would be difficult to handle delayed repairs for naval units differently from the others in game terms....unless they were treated like injured Leaders?

3. Making invasions seems too easy....(although I say that making successful multiple small invasions is not). As the Germans I found I could invade amphibiously at will. Multiple small invasions is unhistoric although I would add that in recent reading I discovered that the Allies contemplated doing just that in France in 42-3 if Russia had been at the point of collapse!.....(which is exactly what I did a game as the Allies...and failed due to inability to support all these....in that sense the significant difficulty in taking a port in italy or France (or Paris) at this scale was probably justified.

overall a superb game!

firepowerjohan · Post by **firepowerjohan** » Thu Jul 05, 2007 2:39 pm

Thanks uk4caster

Italy have Organisation Level 0 and weak commanders so they should not be very good at fighting but hey this is a historic game so with some research the Italians could get quite good. But, they will never get the good commanders so never as good as most other countries.

If you want to compare the different countries in 1939 the simplest way would be to check the research screen. Most countries have no tech other than organisation tech in 1939 and the organisation show roughly which countries are good at start. Commanders is also one issue, leadership give 2% extra max effectiveness to nearby units, per point so leadership 8 means +16% max effectiveness to the near units.

IrishDragoonGuards · Post by **IrishDragoonGuards** » Tue Jul 10, 2007 1:51 pm

I have been thinking .. I know scary eh .. !!

Might not be directly on topic .. but ..
Seems that when units are out of supply .. surrounded .. no city or such ..
They don't suffer any attrition ... so Allies capture N Afr .. Italian Mot is running around for 4 turns .. at 1 hex a turn .. should probably suffer damage ..

IDG

Redpossum · Post by **Redpossum** » Wed Jul 11, 2007 9:18 pm

firepowerjohan wrote:
possum wrote:AHA! (light bulb goes on over head)

I've been playing this thing since beta started, and I just now made the connection between supply level and max points of reinforcement!
Too fun to play CEaW and too dull to read the manual, hey?

Manual? There's a manual?